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ground collision in Turkey #4757964
05/15/18 02:27 PM
05/15/18 02:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 784
Cincinnati, OH USA
CincyDavid Offline OP
CincyDavid  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 784
Cincinnati, OH USA
https://sputniknews.com/science/201805141064453325-south-korean-plane-slice-off-turkish-plane/

Am I missing something here? Don't planes travel in marked lanes or at least have some notion about how much clearance they need, to avoid ground collisions? Broad daylight, clear visibility, and they still made contact.


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Re: ground collision in Turkey [Re: CincyDavid] #4757967
05/15/18 02:31 PM
05/15/18 02:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 567
Anaheim, CA
zorobabel Offline
zorobabel  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 567
Anaheim, CA
The turkish plane pilot forgot to pull the handbrake, so the plane rolled back some LOL


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Re: ground collision in Turkey [Re: CincyDavid] #4757969
05/15/18 02:33 PM
05/15/18 02:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 885
Cleveland
xBa380 Online content
xBa380  Online Content
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 885
Cleveland
Aircraft wasn't parked at the gate, not out of the "envelope" required by the moving airliner. Pilots of the moving aircraft should have noticed that other plane was a bit too close, but i'm sure that's easier said than done perhaps.

Re: ground collision in Turkey [Re: CincyDavid] #4757977
05/15/18 02:41 PM
05/15/18 02:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,137
US
JLTD Online shocked
JLTD  Online Shocked
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,137
US
Same happened at JFK a few years ago. Big wingspan + tight conditions...


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Re: ground collision in Turkey [Re: CincyDavid] #4757978
05/15/18 02:44 PM
05/15/18 02:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,102
Lyndhurst NJ
Audios Offline
Audios  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,102
Lyndhurst NJ
The one at JFK took months to repair, its a Boeing only repair so they determine whether its repairable or not, but depending on the ago of this one it may go to the junkyard.


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Re: ground collision in Turkey [Re: CincyDavid] #4757985
05/15/18 02:54 PM
05/15/18 02:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 634
Toronto
dgunay Offline
dgunay  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 634
Toronto
Ouch,

I wonder if the damage is repairable in short period of time. Looks like a structural damage.


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Re: ground collision in Turkey [Re: CincyDavid] #4758016
05/15/18 03:39 PM
05/15/18 03:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,869
New England
madRiver Offline
madRiver  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,869
New England
That is one expensive repair or write off. I am guessing Turkey is not airbus preferred "body shop" for serious structural damage.I assume you deskin that plane enough to expose structure of tail, remove welding of it, reattach and reskin plane.

Re: ground collision in Turkey [Re: madRiver] #4758034
05/15/18 04:12 PM
05/15/18 04:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,725
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,725
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Because nobody was hurt or killed there'll be no TV dramatization after the required investigation.

The famous Canary Island on-ground collision resulted in so many deaths that several TV shows were made. Most people are done following this...a fender bender.

Re: ground collision in Turkey [Re: CincyDavid] #4758121
05/15/18 06:14 PM
05/15/18 06:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 130
Kentucky
fordman65 Offline
fordman65  Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 130
Kentucky
Too much saki on layover..


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Re: ground collision in Turkey [Re: CincyDavid] #4758459
05/16/18 06:54 AM
05/16/18 06:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
Happens all the time.


Re: ground collision in Turkey [Re: xBa380] #4758713
05/16/18 11:38 AM
05/16/18 11:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,906
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,906
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: xBa380
Aircraft wasn't parked at the gate, not out of the "envelope" required by the moving airliner. Pilots of the moving aircraft should have noticed that other plane was a bit too close, but i'm sure that's easier said than done perhaps.


While you develop a feel for where your wings are, they are not visible from the cockpit on many airliners. On the 747-400, for example, you could see the wingtips, but on the 757 and 767, you cannot.

We have many SOPs to address safe ground operations; FO & Captain both check their sides before moving the airplane and verbally confirm "clear", FO & Captain both check their sides when turning the airplane and report "clear", FO reports "heads down" to the Captain if the airplane is moving and the FO needs to look inside. All obstacles must be cleared laterally, they cannot be cleared vertically (have to go around things, can't go over).

In this ramp area, ATC doesn't have control, so, technically, it's "taxi at your own risk"...but that onus is not well communicated to flight crews. You'll notice that this strike was on the FO side...and FOs have a lot to do while taxiing (checklists, confirming FMC entries, making new FMC entries, starting engines, etc.). This is why the "heads down" communication is so important...

I've got folding money that the FO was heads down, and the ramp cleared the airplane to taxi...but the crew didn't understand that ramp wasn't ATC and that the onus for safe operation (wingtip clearance, in this case) was on them. In the JFK case, the A-380 was cleared to taxi by ground, but the RJ wasn't visible to ground and they were waiting to park.

The important point is this: while ATC may clear you for something, it's your duty to refuse a clearance if you believe it to be unsafe. Too many pilots put blind faith in ATC. You must follow ATC clearance. This is drummed into you from the beginning, and controllers do not take kindly to being questioned on their instructions, but there are times when a simple query from the flight crew points out an error, and a simple refusal to accept a clearance ("Unable") will resolve an unsafe situation.

The A330 wingtip looked relatively unscathed, but that A-320 tail was severely damaged. Depending on the degree of damage, and the age of the airplane, i might well be a write-off. The tail itself is mostly composite, and a bolt-on affair. That's the easy part. The attachment points to the fuselage are part of the fuselage structure. I don't know how they would be tested, but they need to be tested as part of the repair.

Last edited by Astro14; 05/16/18 11:43 AM.

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