How Do Prius Do It?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
764
Location
Chicago, IL
I only put Toyota Synthetic Motor Oil 0-w20 in my car; for reason that this product has a cult following and its performance and protection qualities are "legend".

My Toyota Prius's 1500cc gas engine turns off and on hundreds of times each way as I commute to/from work and home each direction.

My commute is often either in 0F conditions or near 100F conditions season depending. The distance one way is around 11 miles 1/3 freeway, 2/3 city streets.

I would think such conditions hard on the oil, this on & off dance the engine does to save gas.

But Toyota says that this does not mean the car is in severe service usage, and I can keep on going 10,000 miles between changes.

There are many who have similar driving conditions on their Prius too, who have 300,000+ miles with no oil burning nor loss of power.

Ok how does Toyota design a Hybrid that manages MPG by turning on and off the gas engine yet does not shorten the life of the engine? Someone once told me that Prius engines have a pre-oiler...but I have not found any source to back this up.

Ideas?
 
In the case of this frequent, automatic stop/start, Toyota obviously designed the engine with this as it's "normal" operating condition. They probably don't even have a "severe schedule" for the Prius in this case unless you're pulling a trailer in the desert (and I'll bet Toyota says not to tow anyway).

To me, while knowing the 'how' would be interesting, this is a case of trusting what Toyota says. There will be plenty of members here who can't accept this, of course....
 
Originally Posted By: hallstevenson
There will be plenty of members here who can't accept this, of course....


Can't accept what? I'm still trying to figure out what "Prius" (the man, the legend) is doing better or different than literally anyone else. The complex question suggests that they're doing something better or different than other start stop engines.
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom
I only put Toyota Synthetic Motor Oil 0-w20 in my car; for reason that this product has a cult following and its performance and protection qualities are "legend".


TGMO reformulated and lost all of it's moly I believe. Other members might have more insight, but it was a flavour of the month a few years ago. It is nothing more than expensive dealer oil now.

Originally Posted By: lovcom

I would think such conditions hard on the oil, this on & off dance the engine does to save gas.

But Toyota says that this does not mean the car is in severe service usage, and I can keep on going 10,000 miles between changes.

There are many who have similar driving conditions on their Prius too, who have 300,000+ miles with no oil burning nor loss of power.

Ok how does Toyota design a Hybrid that manages MPG by turning on and off the gas engine yet does not shorten the life of the engine? Someone once told me that Prius engines have a pre-oiler...but I have not found any source to back this up.

Ideas?


You have provided evidence to contradict your own ideas. We try not to follow manufacturers recommendations here at BITOG but I am always wary about playing tribologist/ automotive engineer. You are trying to find a solution for a problem that does not exist, by your own admission. If you are concerned about shearing, step up to a 5W30 if you are out of warranty or don't care. From my research the real concern with stop start is not being hard on oil, but main bearing wear.
 
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
How does anyone do stop-start? It's not new tech, and some of the non-hybrids with stop=start cycle far more often than a Prius.
Quote:
who have 300,000+ miles with no oil burning nor loss of power.

ORLY Let me google that for you
https://www.google.com/search?q=prius+excessive+oil+consumption


The fact that engine start/stop is not new is beyond the scope of the question. Sure, lets stipulate that engine start/stop is not new.

How is ONE instance of a Prius excessively burning oil going to answer the question: How does Toyota do it?

ALL makes have instances of excessively oil burning, but Prius is not know for this.

And since Prius is the most dependable car in the world, how do they do it with an engine that starts and stops hundreds of times on many trips?
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom
I only put Toyota Synthetic Motor Oil 0-w20 in my car; for reason that this product has a cult following and its performance and protection qualities are "legend".


Which is primarily bovine excrement, it's a group III based thin synthetic propped up with a ton of polymer. There's nothing prestigious about that, despite the mythos.


Originally Posted By: lovcom
But Toyota says that this does not mean the car is in severe service usage, and I can keep on going 10,000 miles between changes.

There are many who have similar driving conditions on their Prius too, who have 300,000+ miles with no oil burning nor loss of power.

Ok how does Toyota design a Hybrid that manages MPG by turning on and off the gas engine yet does not shorten the life of the engine? Someone once told me that Prius engines have a pre-oiler...but I have not found any source to back this up.

Ideas?



It's no different from how anybody else does it and one of the key pieces here is that the ENGINE doesn't accrue 10,000 miles in that interval.

Try monitoring actual engine-on hours.
 
Doesn't sound like rough conditions to me. I think the Prius engine is absicslly just like a generator engine.
 
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: lovcom
I only put Toyota Synthetic Motor Oil 0-w20 in my car; for reason that this product has a cult following and its performance and protection qualities are "legend".


TGMO reformulated and lost all of it's moly I believe. Other members might have more insight, but it was a flavour of the month a few years ago. It is nothing more than expensive dealer oil now.

Originally Posted By: lovcom

I would think such conditions hard on the oil, this on & off dance the engine does to save gas.

But Toyota says that this does not mean the car is in severe service usage, and I can keep on going 10,000 miles between changes.

There are many who have similar driving conditions on their Prius too, who have 300,000+ miles with no oil burning nor loss of power.

Ok how does Toyota design a Hybrid that manages MPG by turning on and off the gas engine yet does not shorten the life of the engine? Someone once told me that Prius engines have a pre-oiler...but I have not found any source to back this up.

Ideas?


You have provided evidence to contradict your own ideas. We try not to follow manufacturers recommendations here at BITOG but I am always wary about playing tribologist/ automotive engineer. You are trying to find a solution for a problem that does not exist, by your own admission. If you are concerned about shearing, step up to a 5W30 if you are out of warranty or don't care. From my research the real concern with stop start is not being hard on oil, but main bearing wear.



Where do you get that TGMO is/was expensive? I've bought it for years and never paid more than $6 or $7 per quart.

How could I answer my own question, when I never found out HOW Toyota makes an engine that (1) starts and stops very frequently, yet (2) does not seem to cause longevity issues with that engine.

I'm not trying to find a solution...I just want an explanation because I am not an expert. Did you even read my original post?
 
Last edited:
I've been reading on this site that startup wear is overblown. Not sure if that is true, but, with a hybrid, it's not like it has all night to drain down. Those bearing surfaces still have an oil film on them, everything is up to temp, and the engine starts super quick. As you say, these cars are racking up the miles anyhow.
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: lovcom
I only put Toyota Synthetic Motor Oil 0-w20 in my car; for reason that this product has a cult following and its performance and protection qualities are "legend".


TGMO reformulated and lost all of it's moly I believe. Other members might have more insight, but it was a flavour of the month a few years ago. It is nothing more than expensive dealer oil now.

Originally Posted By: lovcom

I would think such conditions hard on the oil, this on & off dance the engine does to save gas.

But Toyota says that this does not mean the car is in severe service usage, and I can keep on going 10,000 miles between changes.

There are many who have similar driving conditions on their Prius too, who have 300,000+ miles with no oil burning nor loss of power.

Ok how does Toyota design a Hybrid that manages MPG by turning on and off the gas engine yet does not shorten the life of the engine? Someone once told me that Prius engines have a pre-oiler...but I have not found any source to back this up.

Ideas?


You have provided evidence to contradict your own ideas. We try not to follow manufacturers recommendations here at BITOG but I am always wary about playing tribologist/ automotive engineer. You are trying to find a solution for a problem that does not exist, by your own admission. If you are concerned about shearing, step up to a 5W30 if you are out of warranty or don't care. From my research the real concern with stop start is not being hard on oil, but main bearing wear.



Where do you get that TGMO is/was expensive? I've bought it for years and never paid more than $6 or $7 per quart.

How could I answer my own question, when I never found out HOW Toyota makes an engine that (1) starts and stops very frequently, yet (2) does not seem to cause longevity issues with that engine.

I'm not trying to find a solution...I just want an explanation because I am not an expert. Did you even read my original post?


Well I quoted it, so I obviously read it intently. You got an answer you did not like when you asked for an opinion, now you are upset.

If you are paying $6-7 a quart for a non-boutique oil in the US then you are obviously no expert, lol.
 
If I recall correctly, the Prius uses the big battery to spin the engine when in a start/stop mode. This brings the engine up to relatively high rpm before fuel and ignition are introduced. So, while not technically a pre-oiler it does restore oil pressure to bearings and lubrication to cylinder walls and camshafts before much load is placed on the engine. And, as hybrids seem to be hold-outs on the DI craze, fuel dilution isn’t an issue either..
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom

The fact that engine start/stop is not new is beyond the scope of the question. Sure, lets stipulate that engine start/stop is not new.

The complex question? In order to answer your question, you need to remove the part that makes it a complex question, that means all the presuppositions and suggestions that are presented as fact in the question.

Quote:
How is ONE instance of a Prius excessively burning oil going to answer the question: How does Toyota do it?

ONE instance? lol If the oil consumption thing didn't make you feel uneasy, you wouldn't need to lie to yourself and then project that onto me
smile.gif
Prius oil burning is neither new, unknown or a singular occurrence.

Quote:

ALL makes have instances of excessively oil burning, but Prius is not know for this.

According to whom? I gave you some really basic evidence there to the contrary. Unless all those people are lying, including board members on here over the years...........


Quote:

And since Prius is the most dependable car in the world, how do they do it with an engine that starts and stops hundreds of times on many trips?

Okay, 'most dependable car in the world' is clearly (the expected) fanciful bully's hit one would expect from someone as fanatical as yourself, but you know you can't possible make such a proclamation with any crediblity what-so-ever. Decently trouble free car, plenty of issues and recalls and without a doubt NOT the "most dependable car in the world". But that's the kind of ego-stroking nonsense I'm trying to expose ITT.




I still don't understand what your 'question' is:
-How can a Prius travel 300K?
-How does an low-output ICE supported by 2 electric motors possible hold together?
-How does the prius survive engine stopping and starting in the aforementioned conditions vs ????????????

Is there a stop-start engine that fails because of it that you're comparing the prius engine to??
 
Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
TGMO reformulated and lost all of it's moly I believe.


This recent PQIA test would indicate otherwise at 787 ppm moly.

http://pqiadata.org/Toyota_0W20.html


It lost all popularity on here for some reason after being #1 0W20 on BITOG for a while.

Remember the Caterham Blend ?

It is either PAO or moly that gets cut when oils are reformulated, which angers the BITOG gods. We must sacrifice virgin oil filters to appease them.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: lovcom
.

My Toyota Prius's 1500cc gas engine turns off and on hundreds of times each way as I commute to/from work and home each direction.





Just curious, have you logged the stop/start cycles on your commute? Enough times to have a reasonable idea how many times it does it?
 
So much misinformation about these hybrid systems. Once the oil is up to temp, multiple start/stop s don't make a measurable amount of wear. It's not like the oil cools completely off and thickens to make a "cold start" 100 times a commute in the city. Logic should tell most people that with ANY vehicle with modern start/stop technology.

The Prius ICE is NOT just a generator engine. Highway driving it's on pretty much all the time. The 1.5s in the OP's Prius C have way less instances of oil burning than the other 1.8 in the sedans and wagons.

Lastly, TGMO 0w20 is good oil but your 1.5 will run just fine on any full synthetic 0w20 on sale for 10k mile intervals. I run Purolator filters and $3 a qt oil (currently Napa) in -30 and -40 temps for 10k intervals with ZERO issues. Great motors.
 
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
TGMO reformulated and lost all of it's moly I believe.


This recent PQIA test would indicate otherwise at 787 ppm moly.

http://pqiadata.org/Toyota_0W20.html


It lost all popularity on here for some reason after being #1 0W20 on BITOG for a while.

Remember the Caterham Blend ?


Because the fanaticism over "stratospheric" VI petered off, thankfully.

There really is no reason to get wound up over a group III oil with 12.9% NOACK (PQIA) jacked up on polymer and no approvals beyond SN, when you can get an oil like M1 AFE 0w-20 with 10.7% NOACK for less, with a solid slug of PAO in the base and numerous OEM approvals including GM's DEXOS. Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20 is even more impressive, carrying a 10.3% NOACK with its GTL base. M1 EP, being majority PAO, is likely even better, but we lack NOACK data for it unfortunately.
 
Originally Posted By: AZjeff


Just curious, have you logged the stop/start cycles on your commute? Enough times to have a reasonable idea how many times it does it?


Even just logically estimating the 'abuse' vs an idle-stop start engine, the Prius appears to have it easy. Idle stop-starters repeatedly have to cycle because there are no electric motors to support creep up during traffic jams. A regular ICE stop-start has to be able to produce full power at any time (probably no less than double the prius ice output). The prius will only run it's ice during special and very premeditated condition- certainly NOT every time you need to creep up in traffic. That=easy street comparatively.

So the real hero engines that I wonder about are all the stop-start ICE non-hybrid engines out there racking up the miles; AMAZING! How do they do it!?
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
TGMO reformulated and lost all of it's moly I believe.


This recent PQIA test would indicate otherwise at 787 ppm moly.

http://pqiadata.org/Toyota_0W20.html


It lost all popularity on here for some reason after being #1 0W20 on BITOG for a while.

Remember the Caterham Blend ?


Because the fanaticism over "stratospheric" VI petered off, thankfully.

There really is no reason to get wound up over a group III oil with 12.9% NOACK (PQIA) jacked up on polymer and no approvals beyond SN, when you can get an oil like M1 AFE 0w-20 with 10.7% NOACK for less, with a solid slug of PAO in the base and numerous OEM approvals including GM's DEXOS. Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20 is even more impressive, carrying a 10.3% NOACK with its GTL base. M1 EP, being majority PAO, is likely even better, but we lack NOACK data for it unfortunately.


Nicely put! I'd like to think we all grew up from that fad
smile.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top