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Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks #4755848
05/13/18 11:00 AM
05/13/18 11:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline OP
JAG  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
Two weeks ago, I put in a 50/50 mix of Amsoil Signature Series 10W-30 & 5W-20. I also added 0.36 qt Hy-per Lube Zinc Replacement (polymer ester). Engine is the 2.3L Ford Ranger with 92k miles. Bought it used with 72k miles and it had two oil changes of Mobil 1 0W-20 EP prior to the use of Amsoil. The oil already looks as dark as Mobil 0W-20 EP used to look after many thousands of miles. I’ve done high temperature tests on both oils and the Amsoil did not darken in color more than Mobil 1, so I don’t think the rapid darkening of the oil in my engine is due to a response to the engine temperatures. I think it has dissolved deposits due to the combination of the potent detergents and dispersants in the Amsoil as well as the ester in it and in the Hy-per Lube. I will be changing this oil early and adding the same mix.

Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: JAG] #4755856
05/13/18 11:06 AM
05/13/18 11:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,070
Middlesex County CT
simple_gifts Offline
simple_gifts  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,070
Middlesex County CT
What is "early?"


2004 Prius; 102K; ASL
2007 Yaris 78K 0w-40 Castrol
2006 B2300;132K;ALM


Was driving an ox cart; Now on the USS Enterprise
Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: JAG] #4755860
05/13/18 11:08 AM
05/13/18 11:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 743
texas
danez_yoda Offline
danez_yoda  Offline
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 743
texas
Did you premix the 10w and 5w oil before pouring the in the engine? If not it was the 10w and 5w oils wrestling with each other and knocking sludge loose like a couple of teen age boys in a sheetrock room. smile

I thought M1 was a good cleaning oil but i guess not. I have seen posts of people claiming that the first time they used pup after running m1 their oil turned black fast.

Might have been varnished up real good and is just getting cleaned.

Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: simple_gifts] #4755864
05/13/18 11:10 AM
05/13/18 11:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline OP
JAG  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
What is "early?"


Not sure yet but maybe 2k to 3k miles. In case it is solubizing deposits, I want to get it out early enough to avoid it getting overloaded and causing it to start to re-deposit.

Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: danez_yoda] #4755874
05/13/18 11:14 AM
05/13/18 11:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: danez_yoda
Did you premix the 10w and 5w oil before pouring the in the engine? If not it was the 10w and 5w oils wrestling with each other and knocking sludge loose like a couple of teen age boys in a sheetrock room. smile

I thought M1 was a good cleaning oil but i guess not. I have seen posts of people claiming that the first time they used pup after running m1 their oil turned black fast.

Might have been varnished up real good and is just getting cleaned.



Oil colour means next to nothing. Certain additives change colour when exposed to heat which will rapidly change the appearance of the oil. Reactions with combustion byproducts can also yield the same effect.

Given the OP used an additive, that throws any theories that could be tabled about the differences between the two lubes out the window, as that's another variable in the mix.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: danez_yoda] #4755881
05/13/18 11:18 AM
05/13/18 11:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline OP
JAG  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
Originally Posted By: danez_yoda
Did you premix the 10w and 5w oil before pouring the in the engine? If not it was the 10w and 5w oils wrestling with each other and knocking sludge loose like a couple of teen age boys in a sheetrock room. smile

I thought M1 was a good cleaning oil but i guess not. I have seen posts of people claiming that the first time they used pup after running m1 their oil turned black fast.

Might have been varnished up real good and is just getting cleaned.


Haha, no I did not pre-mix and I don’t believe the wrestling match would occur.

I did some tests with some oils to determine their ability to dissolve varnish deposits consisting of oxidized vegetable oil. Surface temperatures varied between ambient and around 175F. Mobil 1 0W-20 EP had notably less ability to disoolve the deposits than Amsoil Signature Series 0W-20, Redline 5W-30, and Mobil 1 0W-40. Mobil 1 0W-20 EP did not soften or dissolve the deposits. It was like it couldn’t “get into” the deposit.

Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: OVERKILL] #4755884
05/13/18 11:20 AM
05/13/18 11:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline OP
JAG  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: danez_yoda
Did you premix the 10w and 5w oil before pouring the in the engine? If not it was the 10w and 5w oils wrestling with each other and knocking sludge loose like a couple of teen age boys in a sheetrock room. smile

I thought M1 was a good cleaning oil but i guess not. I have seen posts of people claiming that the first time they used pup after running m1 their oil turned black fast.

Might have been varnished up real good and is just getting cleaned.



Oil colour means next to nothing. Certain additives change colour when exposed to heat which will rapidly change the appearance of the oil. Reactions with combustion byproducts can also yield the same effect.

Given the OP used an additive, that throws any theories that could be tabled about the differences between the two lubes out the window, as that's another variable in the mix.

By the way, the Hy-per Lube additive is water-clear and stays that way for a long time when exposed to heat.

Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: JAG] #4755885
05/13/18 11:21 AM
05/13/18 11:21 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 846
TX
parshisa Offline
parshisa  Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 846
TX
Pure 5w30 Ams SS got dark in 100mi. Same thing woth 0w20. Oil color means nothing

Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: JAG] #4755886
05/13/18 11:22 AM
05/13/18 11:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,181
Pennsylbammyvania
dailydriver Offline
dailydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,181
Pennsylbammyvania
Does fuel dilution help contribute to oil changing color at all?

My last SHORT (2500mile) winter OCI on old formula Amsoil SS 5W-20 smelled so strongly of VPower that I was tempted to dump it into the fuel tank! LOL (and it was tar colored as well wink )
It could not have been dirt/sludge/varnish (but maybe 'soot'?) since this car only had 8K miles on it at the time of that change, and already had 3 previous OCIs including the factory fill.

I also added 6 ounces of the ZRA to my current fill, so I will see what it does at the next winter OCI drain.


2016 Ford Fiesta ST
Ravenol REP 5W-30
Amsoil Ea15K51 filter
Ravenol MTF-2 in the IB6 transaxle
Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: JAG] #4755890
05/13/18 11:27 AM
05/13/18 11:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: danez_yoda
Did you premix the 10w and 5w oil before pouring the in the engine? If not it was the 10w and 5w oils wrestling with each other and knocking sludge loose like a couple of teen age boys in a sheetrock room. smile

I thought M1 was a good cleaning oil but i guess not. I have seen posts of people claiming that the first time they used pup after running m1 their oil turned black fast.

Might have been varnished up real good and is just getting cleaned.


Haha, no I did not pre-mix and I don’t believe the wrestling match would occur.

I did some tests with some oils to determine their ability to dissolve varnish deposits consisting of oxidized vegetable oil. Surface temperatures varied between ambient and around 175F. Mobil 1 0W-20 EP had notably less ability to disoolve the deposits than Amsoil Signature Series 0W-20, Redline 5W-30, and Mobil 1 0W-40. Mobil 1 0W-20 EP did not soften or dissolve the deposits. It was like it couldn’t “get into” the deposit.


Luckily most engines don't have oxidized vegetable oil in them to worry about??? shrug

If you feel this approach has relevance, I'd suggest some byproducts of actual engine oil. Do you have access to any?

I might find Dawn to be more effective at dissolving candle wax than Sunlight. But since that isn't the intended purpose for either of them, it doesn't tell me a whole heck of a lot about how well they work on my dishes.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: JAG] #4755891
05/13/18 11:29 AM
05/13/18 11:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JAG

By the way, the Hy-per Lube additive is water-clear and stays that way for a long time when exposed to heat.


And you tested this exposing it to combustion by-products while mixed with two different engines oils in a controlled experiment before? There are a lot more variables than heat in play here.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: JAG] #4755892
05/13/18 11:29 AM
05/13/18 11:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,027
Ohio
hallstevenson Offline
hallstevenson  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,027
Ohio
Could a chemical reaction between the additive you used and the additives in the oil have caused that ? Original color of the additive isn't indicative of the resulting color either, I don't think.

Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: dailydriver] #4755895
05/13/18 11:32 AM
05/13/18 11:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Does fuel dilution help contribute to oil changing color at all?

My last SHORT (2500mile) winter OCI on old formula Amsoil SS 5W-20 smelled so strongly of VPower that I was tempted to dump it into the fuel tank! LOL (and it was tar colored as well wink )
It could not have been dirt/sludge/varnish (but maybe 'soot'?) since this car only had 8K miles on it at the time of that change, and already had 3 previous OCIs including the factory fill.

I also added 6 ounces of the ZRA to my current fill, so I will see what it does at the next winter OCI drain.


Yes, combustion byproducts that get by the rings, volatized oil components sucked through the PVC, mixed with fuel and burned that then gets mixed into what gets by the rings, partially burned HC's....etc. This all has the ability to have an effect on oil appearance. Toss an additive in the mix and you've got even more variables in play.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: hallstevenson] #4755896
05/13/18 11:32 AM
05/13/18 11:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: hallstevenson
Could a chemical reaction between the additive you used and the additives in the oil have caused that ? Original color of the additive isn't indicative of the resulting color either, I don't think.


Yes. Exactly.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks [Re: JAG] #4755928
05/13/18 12:12 PM
05/13/18 12:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline OP
JAG  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
Vegetable oil varnish is not as ideal as testing on motor oil varnish or combustion by-products but it has some similarities to the former. They are both polar, oxidized, and polymerized deposits. Molecular species distributions are different but the similarity is in the difficulty in penetrating/solubizing the substance in motor oils or base oils. Detergents and dispersants have polar parts that are attracted to deposits. Likewise with polar base oils, such as esters. PAO is the least polar of common base oils used and they are least capable of solubizing polar molecules/deposits. M1 0W-20 EP has a lot of PAO in it and apparently, the rest of the base oils and additives are not potent solubizers. As said before, Mobil 1 0W-40 was able to slowly solubize the deposit. It has a different detergent package and a higher concentration of it than M1 0W-20 EP does. It also has an amount of ester that is easily detectable in virgin oxidation tests. M1 0W-20 EP does not share that trait.

I plan to do more testing, using varnish from motor oil in one test type and in another, use a surface that I have burned gasoline on. In testing already conducted, it showed that if the motor oil varnish has not been sufficiently hardened, new motor oil that is the same as what formed the varnish could almost completely solubize the varnish and leave the steel surface free of any visible deposit when wiped with a paper towel. If the varnish is sufficiently hardened, I found nothing that could remove the deposit except for abrasives.

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