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Does diesel oil do more cleaning? #4753128
05/10/18 02:55 PM
05/10/18 02:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,177
VA
maverickfhs Offline OP
maverickfhs  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,177
VA
Maybe all of my threads are going to be towards diesel oil, since I plan to change oil in the Civic soon. thumbsup

Do oils like PP5W30 Euro AV do more cleaning than any other gasoline oil? For short tripping and 3K miles, would it clean anything or cause harm or no noticeable difference for a car like Civic?

I have no qualms using it, based on the thread I posted: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4620526#Post4620526

Thanks for any advice and help.







2006 Civic EX 202K/AT
2006 Acura TSX 180K/AT
Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753158
05/10/18 03:36 PM
05/10/18 03:36 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,365
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Online content
Char Baby  Online Content
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,365
ROCHESTER, NY
I think that diesel oils have a higher level(PPM) of Calcium & Magnesium but, others will chime in with more info.


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753165
05/10/18 03:44 PM
05/10/18 03:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 416
Somewhere in time
Imp4 Offline
Imp4  Offline
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 416
Somewhere in time
Define cleaning.
Define the measurement of said cleaning.
Provide a method for measuring said cleaning action.
Report back with repeatable test protocol and verifiable, repeatable results.
Discuss.

Or..... speculate.....


2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.4 - 157k+
Grandma's creampuff...
Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753169
05/10/18 03:50 PM
05/10/18 03:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,559
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,559
Oregon
I think all modern oils do a good job at cleaning with a shortened OCI. Thereís really no way to say which oil cleans better. All you will find is opinions.


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753184
05/10/18 04:10 PM
05/10/18 04:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,124
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,124
US-WA
My understanding was always that because diesels are sooty, the diesel rated oil has to be better at dispersing vs pcmo. I'm sure people that know can correct my assumptions.


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 100K Napa 10w30, FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40, XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 20K VR1 20w50, NG1515
14 RX450h 33k PP MIX, NG7047
Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753195
05/10/18 04:19 PM
05/10/18 04:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,001
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,001
Idaho
What are you going to be cleaning? Does it need to be cleaned.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753244
05/10/18 05:28 PM
05/10/18 05:28 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 110
California
Dave1027 Offline
Dave1027  Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 110
California
Many of the guys on the BMW forum swear by Rotella T6 (diesel oil) to clean out the ring lands which reduces oil burning. I always thought it was due to the high magnesium content.

Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753346
05/10/18 07:05 PM
05/10/18 07:05 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,538
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,538
The land of USA-made Subies!
NONE of the major oils will put anything on their oils that say they "clean" dirty engines.

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum & Platinum say they "keep pistons xx% cleaner" than the standard.
Castrol Ultraclean GTX says it provides "50% more sludge protection"

There are other examples. Only a solvent can clean. Good oils can only reduce the amount of junk that gets deposited into the engine.

Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753354
05/10/18 07:10 PM
05/10/18 07:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,219
Rabbit Creek, Alaska
jayg Offline
jayg  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,219
Rabbit Creek, Alaska
For 3k mile intervals in a Civic, use the cheapest name brand conventional oil on clearance. I pay for expensive diesel oil only when I have an application that I have to use it for DPFS and soot. You don't have that so save your money.


2017 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel- RT6 5w40
2015 Prius C Napa 0w20
1973 240Z 10w30 VWC from '73
1973 Triumph Bonneville 750 M1 5w50
1967 BSA 441 Victor Special M1 5w50




Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753425
05/10/18 08:05 PM
05/10/18 08:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 501
Los Gatos, CA
JeffKeryk Offline
JeffKeryk  Offline
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 501
Los Gatos, CA
From:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28576/comparing-gasoline-diesel-engine-oils-

Diesel engine oil has more additives per volume. The most prevalent are overbase detergent additives. This additive has several jobs, but the main ones are to neutralize acids and clean. Diesel engines create a great deal more soot and combustion byproducts.

Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4753454
05/10/18 08:24 PM
05/10/18 08:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,559
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,559
Oregon
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
NONE of the major oils will put anything on their oils that say they "clean" dirty engines.

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum & Platinum say they "keep pistons xx% cleaner" than the standard.
Castrol Ultraclean GTX says it provides "50% more sludge protection"

There are other examples. Only a solvent can clean. Good oils can only reduce the amount of junk that gets deposited into the engine.


Iíve seen oil filters cut open on a dirty engine after short synthetic OCIs. There is certainly some cleaning going on. Lots of black grit.


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4753623
05/10/18 11:17 PM
05/10/18 11:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,275
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,275
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46


Iíve seen oil filters cut open on a dirty engine after short synthetic OCIs. There is certainly some cleaning going on. Lots of black grit.


But a "dirty engine" has 1000 times more black grit sludge still in the engine....


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753628
05/10/18 11:28 PM
05/10/18 11:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,945
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,945
Kalifornia Kollective
Port injected Civic with how many miles and what service history?

You want clean, put a full can of BG109 in there for teh last 100 miles and change the oil. Or, put 5 ounces of SeaFoam in the crankcase for a 20 minute gentle drive around the block and change the oil. Either will clean stuff no basic oil will touch.

But what are we trying to clean? Varnish? Sludge? Something else ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: maverickfhs] #4753663
05/11/18 01:01 AM
05/11/18 01:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,684
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,684
Balearic Islands , Spain
HDEOs do have a healthier dose of dispersants, since when used in Diesel engines they are pumped ful of soot they have to keep in suspension.
I am using a HDEO in my Escort to hopefully help clean it up, the previous owner did not change the oil regularly, although i intend to keep using HDEO for the high Zddp and the 15W-40 viscosity is perfect for the CVH with over 100k miles.

Rocker cover gasket change 09-05-2018 by Argentum Enim in Sempiternum, en Flickr

Took the valve cover off the other day to change the rocker cover gasket, the valvetrain itself was not too bad the but the underside of the rocker cover was caked in oil deposits and the PCV outlet was clogged.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.
Re: Does diesel oil do more cleaning? [Re: JeffKeryk] #4753697
05/11/18 03:32 AM
05/11/18 03:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,153
Europe
SonofJoe Offline
SonofJoe  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,153
Europe
Originally Posted By: JeffKeryk
From:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28576/comparing-gasoline-diesel-engine-oils-

Diesel engine oil has more additives per volume. The most prevalent are overbase detergent additives. This additive has several jobs, but the main ones are to neutralize acids and clean. Diesel engines create a great deal more soot and combustion byproducts.



It is received wisdom that overbased metallic detergents carry out a 'cleaning' function in engine oil. In my experience, this just isn't true.

To understand what an overbased detergent actually is, try and imagine a beaker which contains one third powdered chalk (calcium carbonate) and two thirds of mineral base oil. The resultant gritty, opaque, gooey mess might not be something you'll want to put into your engine if your objective is keeping things clean! It would also block your oil filter in minutes.

Now imagine you can remove from the beaker a bit of the base oil, and replace it with some 'neutral' calcium alkyl sulphonate (often referred to as 'soap') which, through the magic of colloidal dispersion, breaks up those particles of calcium carbonate to the point where they're soooooooooooo small, the mixture becomes transparent. That's essentially what an overbased detergent is.

The primary purpose of the calcium carbonate in detergent in to neutralise acids (just imagine putting citric acid in your kettle to react with limescale...same thing!). The primary purpose of the calcium alkyl sulphonate is to colloidally disperse that inorganic base (hence the term 'overbased'). Now some folks will tell you that the same calcium alkyl sulphonate will keep those acid-base reaction products dispersed in the oil and help prevent deposits dropping out. I think at one point this was probably true but in today's environment, I'm not sure it is and if it still is, then it's a very minor effect.

Hope that helps...



Last edited by SonofJoe; 05/11/18 03:33 AM.
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