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Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? #4752682
05/10/18 07:57 AM
05/10/18 07:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 74
Minnesota
cmlind Offline OP
cmlind  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 74
Minnesota
Just changed the oil on my new Forester for the first time last weekend at 2700 miles. I warmed up the car for 10 minutes, cooled down for another 10 and pulled the drain plug, then filter - I hate figuring out plastic cover clips and stuck plugs and tight filters on the first changes.......

Anyway, the black Subaru filter that installs upside down was completely drained out. I cant see an anti drainback valve either. The Wix I installed has a valve. How can this be right from the factory?

I still need to cut it open and inspect. There was a little metal in the pan - some glitter in the light, but nothing alarming, but enough to justify in my mind an early change. My thoughts other than dry start ups - would the filter draining back regularly allow dirt to flow back to the pan? I know it is a small filter, but not good design. Anyone know if the blue subaru filters have valves?

Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4752697
05/10/18 08:17 AM
05/10/18 08:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,083
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,083
MA, Mittelfranken.de
If its mounted upside down I would think it should have a ADBV or it will have to refill the filter every start and that's not good. The old Subaru had a vertical mounted filter from below and didn't need a ADBV.
I this case I believe yes everything not hanging in the filter will go backwards at least as far as the pump.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4752701
05/10/18 08:21 AM
05/10/18 08:21 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,093
Ocala, Florida
racin4ds Offline
racin4ds  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,093
Ocala, Florida
I just looked under the hood of the loaner we had (2018 Forester) and seen that filter right there on top and upside down! It was black as well, not blue like the other OEM Subies I've seen.

My 08 Legacy has the filter on the bottom, very easy to get to and I guess it would stay full and not need a ADBV.


Just say NO to thin oils and M1!
05 F350 Powerstroke
05 Hyundai Tucson
08 Legacy GT
Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4752703
05/10/18 08:22 AM
05/10/18 08:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,270
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,270
New England
If that filter you took off had a part number ending in AA160, that's one that a lot of us wish we could buy in the US. I am presently using a Tokyo Roki filter intended for the WRX (not STI), I am comfortable with it since the engine in my FXT is almost identical.
Every Subaru/Tokyo Roki filter I've used has had an ADBV and they always have some oil in them when I take them off my car. I used one WIX/NAPA Gold filter with the higher bypass pressure Subaru seems to like and it just wouldn't stop weeping oil...I think the square cut seal on the thing had an overly prominent seam and oil still got out when I went gorilla on it. Went back to the Tokyo Rokis that I have never had issues with.
I used a couple of blue cans early on and didn't like that I could feel the case flexing when I tightened them, it just didn't sit right with me.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4752735
05/10/18 08:50 AM
05/10/18 08:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 74
Minnesota
cmlind Offline OP
cmlind  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 74
Minnesota
I will get a picture of the filter tonight when I get home.

Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4752738
05/10/18 08:52 AM
05/10/18 08:52 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,241
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,241
N.H, U.S.A.
Have had 3 FB engines in the past 8 years.

Basic physics and fluid dynamics.

Doesn't matter if it has an anti-drainback valve- It will empty.

It is at the highest point on engine, above all oil galleries, NOT in a closed system. It will fill with air and drain.
Dry start every time.

Now how does that add you your BITIOG paranoia? smile

Wife's last FB25 was burning oil at the rate of 1-2 per OCI at 55K miles.
No oil use, but excessive startup noise on the Crosstrek FB20.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4752739
05/10/18 08:53 AM
05/10/18 08:53 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,241
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,241
N.H, U.S.A.
IIRC all filters had ADB valves, Including the JDM OE Toyo-Roki.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4752749
05/10/18 08:59 AM
05/10/18 08:59 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,241
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,241
N.H, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: cmlind
Just changed the oil on my new Forester for the first time last weekend ....
.... I cant see an anti drainback valve either ...

I still need to cut it open and inspect. ...


Its right there under the inlet holes. You may be thinking BYPASS which is in the can bottom on Roki's and Fram-arus. IN Wix its at the base end ( taking up all the filter space!)

If you want to emulate SUBARU OE replacement service parts you want to use a Fram Toughguard. That's basically what the dealer filter is.

Me ID look for a M1 filter in a large format. A low Bypass rating or 7-10 PSIG delta doesn't matter in the Non turbo engine in non "racy" environments.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4752885
05/10/18 10:52 AM
05/10/18 10:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,001
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,001
Idaho
Oil leaks out of the passages and bearing . The drain back valve is to keep the oil from back washing the filter. There are some filters with "double " anti drain back valves for certain applications.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4752926
05/10/18 11:33 AM
05/10/18 11:33 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,241
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,241
N.H, U.S.A.
If the filter ( with an ADBV) is low in the system (some are under the oil level) it will hold oil in the galleries and filter. at least overnight if the engine isn't put away wet.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4752945
05/10/18 11:57 AM
05/10/18 11:57 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,714
Columbus,Nebraska
Yah-Tah-Hey Offline
Yah-Tah-Hey  Offline
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,714
Columbus,Nebraska
If it it "upside down" no anti-drainback valve will prevent oil returning to the engine via pump clearances. May take awhile but the distortion of spacetime by the Earth(gravity) will empty the filter. smile

Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: Yah-Tah-Hey] #4752972
05/10/18 12:24 PM
05/10/18 12:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,936
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,936
PNW
Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
If it it "upside down" no anti-drainback valve will prevent oil returning to the engine via pump clearances. May take awhile but the distortion of spacetime by the Earth(gravity) will empty the filter. smile


It might empty the center tube and gallery down stream of the center tube depending on the configuration of the system after the filter mount. But the oil inside the filter and down to the pump would stay full if the ADBV seals 100%.

Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4753167
05/10/18 03:49 PM
05/10/18 03:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,953
NE,Ohio
Rand Offline
Rand  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,953
NE,Ohio
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
If it it "upside down" no anti-drainback valve will prevent oil returning to the engine via pump clearances. May take awhile but the distortion of spacetime by the Earth(gravity) will empty the filter. smile


It might empty the center tube and gallery down stream of the center tube depending on the configuration of the system after the filter mount. But the oil inside the filter and down to the pump would stay full if the ADBV seals 100%.


So oil wont go through the filter when its not under pressure?


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: Rand] #4753201
05/10/18 04:26 PM
05/10/18 04:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,936
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,936
PNW
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
If it it "upside down" no anti-drainback valve will prevent oil returning to the engine via pump clearances. May take awhile but the distortion of spacetime by the Earth(gravity) will empty the filter. smile

It might empty the center tube and gallery down stream of the center tube depending on the configuration of the system after the filter mount. But the oil inside the filter and down to the pump would stay full if the ADBV seals 100%.

So oil wont go through the filter when its not under pressure?


Oil should say in the filter between the media and the can if the ADBV is sealing 100%. The info below is from an old thread of mine, but the photos don't show anymore due to the "Photobucket Ransom". But as you can see below (and others have done this same test), the filter was full of oil after sitting base down for a week in a funnel. The oil only leaked out if the filter after I opened up the ADBV with some Q-Tips to hold it open.


---- From My Old Thread With Same Photos -----

Drainage setup for the filter to test the ADBV.
While the filter was still pretty hot I put it base side down in a funnel and let the hot oil drain out, and then left it to drain for a whole week. After the week of draining, I then jammed some folded over Q-tip sticks in 3 of the base plate holes to open up the ADBV to let the guts drain out in a clean glass bottle. What drained out was what the ADBV was holding back for a week.




Results of the oil trapped by the ADBV - it came out to 6 ounces.

A rough calculation of the volume between the center core and the can shell showed to be about 13.7 cu-in. Six ounces of fluid will take up 10.8 cu-in, so this means basically the ADBV was keeping the entire space between the can and center core full of oil indefinitely. Filter is in the cutter ready for dissection.



Re: Do Subaru Factory Filters Anti Drainback Valves? [Re: cmlind] #4753225
05/10/18 04:58 PM
05/10/18 04:58 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,714
Columbus,Nebraska
Yah-Tah-Hey Offline
Yah-Tah-Hey  Offline
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,714
Columbus,Nebraska
Thank you for that ZOS

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