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Hornady Critical Duty And FBI #4750326
05/07/18 04:51 PM
05/07/18 04:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
I came across this article over the weekend about the FBI selecting Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock 9mm +P 135 gr. as its issue ammunition. I have been using this ammo in my SD9 since last year.

https://press.hornady.com/release/2018/04/26/hornady-awarded-fbi-9mmp-service-ammunition-contract/

Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750358
05/07/18 05:29 PM
05/07/18 05:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 370
AL,NC,TX,Germany,Korea,Italy
Timo325 Offline
Timo325  Offline
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 370
AL,NC,TX,Germany,Korea,Italy
Yup. In 2016 they were favored to win the 40S&W contract which they won in 17.

2017 I heard that they were favored again for 9mm which they won this year.


2011 Odyssey Touring Elite 80k mi. M1 EP, 0W-20, FU
2008 Mustang GT 81k mi. Edge EP (Gold) 5W-20, FU

Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750411
05/07/18 06:30 PM
05/07/18 06:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,080
Mahzurrah!
KCJeep Offline
KCJeep  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,080
Mahzurrah!
While I like Hornady ammo, the Critical Duty is a very poor choice for duty ammo IMO. And unfortunately I am currently forced to carry it at work in the .40 caliber variety. It's a good thing I'm a good shot!

The Critical Duty is controlled expansion, high penetration type ammo. That type of ammo tends to do very well in the FBI tests. However if you look at actual street shootings, the most effective ammo has generally been the radical expansion high energy transfer types. The well known Federal 9BPLE 9mm 115 grain +P+ is one example.

The 9mm 135 grain Critical Duty is probably the worst in the whole line up. I suspect it won't take a whole lot of FBI shootings before they are looking for something else. Hopefully this time instead of blaming the 9mm perhaps they will get better ammo for it. But they are likely to follow their FBI protocol tests of course, which is just going to yield them another type of ammo that does well in their tests but stinks on the street.



09 Lincoln MKZ AWD 98k - M1 AFE 0w30
12 KIA Sedona 92k - PP HM 10w30
09 Ford Focus 131k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
00 Chev Lumina 201k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
04 Jeep Grand Cherokee gone but not forgotten.
Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750613
05/07/18 09:15 PM
05/07/18 09:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
KCJeep, the funny thing about me buying this ammo was, I didn't ever read any PR on it. ACADEMY is my go to ammo store when I want just a few boxes of ammo instead of 1K's of rounds. I saw it on sale for $9.99 a box of 25. I bought 8 boxes of it and have 4 left. I then started reading about it and my son and I started testing it. Windshields, washers and dryers, car doors, drywall, etc. This is/was a fun round to shoot. Now I have 3 mags loaded with it for my SD9. It's not an HST or a SPEER GD, but it sure will get the job done for me.
KC, if your dept. would let you use any round that YOU wanted to use, which one would it be? Y'all are still carrying .40 cals., right?



Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750671
05/07/18 10:13 PM
05/07/18 10:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,297
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Marco620 Offline
Marco620  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,297
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
I like the Sig Sauer 147gr hp in my Heckler & Koch VP9s and Walther.


15' Civic 186k.0w20 Redline/Archoil9200,Eibach,Tanabe&Tein Suspension/Borla Exhaust/XG7317/Redline Si-1
Right to work state proud. Non union household
Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750806
05/08/18 06:08 AM
05/08/18 06:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,080
Mahzurrah!
KCJeep Offline
KCJeep  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,080
Mahzurrah!
Yes still carrying .40s. I would be perfectly content with Golden Sabers, Gold Dots or HSTs, all of which are known for reliable and radical expansion.

As we talked about before BOF, the 9mm 147s have pretty much stunk on the street (and they do pretty well in the FBI tests) in a 9mm I would want something +P+ in 115 or 124 grain for duty use again in Sabers, Gold Dots or HSTs.


09 Lincoln MKZ AWD 98k - M1 AFE 0w30
12 KIA Sedona 92k - PP HM 10w30
09 Ford Focus 131k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
00 Chev Lumina 201k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
04 Jeep Grand Cherokee gone but not forgotten.
Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750865
05/08/18 08:15 AM
05/08/18 08:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,121
Nashville, TN via Memphis
john_pifer Offline
john_pifer  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,121
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Perfect illustration of the FACT that gov't choice of gun/ammo/airplanes/tanks/ships/everything else is mostly politics and backroom deals, and the actual performance of the equipment in question is usually way down the priority list.

The government is so freaking incompetent.

This is off-topic, but I just saw and article this morning on the overheat condition of the 4 main propeller shaft bearings on the new Gerald Ford aircraft carrier. How in the world could someone let a part that critical, get screwed up? Furthermore, the article seemed to imply that there's no warranty from GE, meaning that WE, as taxpayers, will be footing the bill for someone's imcompetence.

A project that big, and components that critical, the Navy should have had their people in the dam machining room, supervising that job.

Check Drudge Report for the article.


16 WRX - PPPP
07 Tacoma V6 - M1 EP 5W-30, Fram Ultra, 10K OCIs, 198K
07 Yamaha R1 - Rotella T6 5W-40, Bosch 3300
07 Yamaha YZ-250, Klotz, Rotella

Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750878
05/08/18 08:35 AM
05/08/18 08:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,131
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,131
New Jersey
It seems to me that these Hornady defensive rounds are better implemented in handgun calibers and loads.

But a test on this OP one specifically:

https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-135-gr-p-jhp-flexlock-hornady-critical-duty-25-rounds#geltest

HST is more like 0.61-0.66" vs 0.43"

But I'd suspect these may work better through metal and wood.

Do we have a basis of the acquisition criteria and outcome of objective testing before just blindly bashing the gov't and saying it's all wrong?

Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: JHZR2] #4750954
05/08/18 10:11 AM
05/08/18 10:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
It seems to me that these Hornady defensive rounds are better implemented in handgun calibers and loads.

But a test on this OP one specifically:

https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-135-gr-p-jhp-flexlock-hornady-critical-duty-25-rounds#geltest

HST is more like 0.61-0.66" vs 0.43"

But I'd suspect these may work better through metal and wood.

Do we have a basis of the acquisition criteria and outcome of objective testing before just blindly bashing the gov't and saying it's all wrong?

Touche! Very good point, Sir. fence

Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: KCJeep] #4750966
05/08/18 10:20 AM
05/08/18 10:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Yes still carrying .40s. I would be perfectly content with Golden Sabers, Gold Dots or HSTs, all of which are known for reliable and radical expansion.

As we talked about before BOF, the 9mm 147s have pretty much stunk on the street (and they do pretty well in the FBI tests) in a 9mm I would want something +P+ in 115 or 124 grain for duty use again in Sabers, Gold Dots or HSTs.

Yes, KC, we both agreed that the .40 was the ideal round. And, I still stand by that decision. In the (3) .40 cal. guns I own, one has HST, one has PDX1, and the last one has Underwood GD. This one particular 9mm has the Hornady CD because of the price I paid for them. My other 9's have OATH, HST, and the old CORBON DPX that expand to .89".

Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4751187
05/08/18 02:10 PM
05/08/18 02:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,930
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,930
PNW
Stop chasing the Unicorn and go for Federal HST.

Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: ZeeOSix] #4751713
05/09/18 04:50 AM
05/09/18 04:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Stop chasing the Unicorn and go for Federal HST.


I have to agree. Some of this ammo chasing gets ridiculous.

Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4751795
05/09/18 07:59 AM
05/09/18 07:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,906
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,906
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I came across this article over the weekend about the FBI selecting Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock 9mm +P 135 gr. as its issue ammunition. I have been using this ammo in my SD9 since last year.

https://press.hornady.com/release/2018/04/26/hornady-awarded-fbi-9mmp-service-ammunition-contract/



Using?

Or carrying?

You obsess a lot about ammo.

But you don't report shooting it, which is what you should do to ensure reliable function in your particular gun/magazine combination.

The minor differences in performance between modern ammo loadings are not nearly as important as being certain that the ammo works in YOUR gun with YOUR magazines.

You can bet that the FBI conducted extensive testing before selecting an ammunition. Ballistics tests, function tests, reliability tests, all of it. But then, and this is important, they awarded a contract based on those factors and some others: cost, delivery rates, etc. So, is the Hornady good ammo? Sure. So is the Speer, and the Federal, and lots of others. I happen to have a few thousand rounds of Federal HST in 9mm. Works perfectly in every 9mm I own. I'm good.

I also SHOOT the ammo I select. And I shoot the ammo that's been loaded for six months. Once it's been loaded for a while, it's been exposed to dirt, temperature, maybe even a bit of lube, if I wasn't careful. It's also been banged around inside the magazine, and perhaps chambered several times as the gun was loaded and unloaded for range practice. At that point, the chance of a malfunction goes up, so I shoot it for practice and load the gun with fresh ammo. The Federal Agency for whom I used to work issued new duty ammo every six months. We could keep the old ammo (I did) and use it for practice (and I did). That's a good rule: change out your carry ammo every six months.

So, pick an ammo. Buy a case and save some $$. Use some to verify function. Change it out every six months.

And shoot it.


32 Packard 15W40
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W40 M1
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: Astro14] #4752487
05/09/18 10:38 PM
05/09/18 10:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I came across this article over the weekend about the FBI selecting Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock 9mm +P 135 gr. as its issue ammunition. I have been using this ammo in my SD9 since last year.

https://press.hornady.com/release/2018/04/26/hornady-awarded-fbi-9mmp-service-ammunition-contract/



Using?

Or carrying?

You obsess a lot about ammo.

But you don't report shooting it, which is what you should do to ensure reliable function in your particular gun/magazine combination.

The minor differences in performance between modern ammo loadings are not nearly as important as being certain that the ammo works in YOUR gun with YOUR magazines.

You can bet that the FBI conducted extensive testing before selecting an ammunition. Ballistics tests, function tests, reliability tests, all of it. But then, and this is important, they awarded a contract based on those factors and some others: cost, delivery rates, etc. So, is the Hornady good ammo? Sure. So is the Speer, and the Federal, and lots of others. I happen to have a few thousand rounds of Federal HST in 9mm. Works perfectly in every 9mm I own. I'm good.

I also SHOOT the ammo I select. And I shoot the ammo that's been loaded for six months. Once it's been loaded for a while, it's been exposed to dirt, temperature, maybe even a bit of lube, if I wasn't careful. It's also been banged around inside the magazine, and perhaps chambered several times as the gun was loaded and unloaded for range practice. At that point, the chance of a malfunction goes up, so I shoot it for practice and load the gun with fresh ammo. The Federal Agency for whom I used to work issued new duty ammo every six months. We could keep the old ammo (I did) and use it for practice (and I did). That's a good rule: change out your carry ammo every six months.

So, pick an ammo. Buy a case and save some $$. Use some to verify function. Change it out every six months.

And shoot it.

YES, using it. AKA-shooting it. I bought 8 boxes and have USED-AKA-SHOT 4 boxes of it since last year. In my posts up there ^^^^^ you will see what my son and I USED-AKA-SHOT it at. smile
Yes, I obsess A LOT about ammo. I wish I could have a bed of it to lie in and just roll around in it, cover myself with it, ............OH MY, am I dreaming again?
But, yeah, I LOVE shooting more than ANYTHING in this world. Guns have ALWAYS been my favorite hobby since as far back as I can remember to a youth!

Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4752688
05/10/18 08:03 AM
05/10/18 08:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,872
South Florida
bubbatime Offline
bubbatime  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,872
South Florida
Critical Defense and Critical Duty are near the bottom of what I would ever load in my pistol.

A famous quote comes to mind: "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."


17 Chrysler Pacifica Mobil 1 5W30
13 Yamaha XT250 Valv MC 10W40
12 Suzuki S40 Rotella 15W40
10 Acura TSX 2.4 PZL Plat 5W30
06 GMC Sierra Nextgen 10W30


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