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#4750326 - 05/07/18 04:51 PM Hornady Critical Duty And FBI
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 6003
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
I came across this article over the weekend about the FBI selecting Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock 9mm +P 135 gr. as its issue ammunition. I have been using this ammo in my SD9 since last year.

https://press.hornady.com/release/2018/04/26/hornady-awarded-fbi-9mmp-service-ammunition-contract/
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#4750358 - 05/07/18 05:29 PM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
Timo325 Offline


Registered: 08/31/14
Posts: 336
Loc: AL,NC,TX,Germany,Korea,Italy
Yup. In 2016 they were favored to win the 40S&W contract which they won in 17.

2017 I heard that they were favored again for 9mm which they won this year.
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#4750411 - 05/07/18 06:30 PM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 6987
Loc: Mahzurrah!
While I like Hornady ammo, the Critical Duty is a very poor choice for duty ammo IMO. And unfortunately I am currently forced to carry it at work in the .40 caliber variety. It's a good thing I'm a good shot!

The Critical Duty is controlled expansion, high penetration type ammo. That type of ammo tends to do very well in the FBI tests. However if you look at actual street shootings, the most effective ammo has generally been the radical expansion high energy transfer types. The well known Federal 9BPLE 9mm 115 grain +P+ is one example.

The 9mm 135 grain Critical Duty is probably the worst in the whole line up. I suspect it won't take a whole lot of FBI shootings before they are looking for something else. Hopefully this time instead of blaming the 9mm perhaps they will get better ammo for it. But they are likely to follow their FBI protocol tests of course, which is just going to yield them another type of ammo that does well in their tests but stinks on the street.

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#4750613 - 05/07/18 09:15 PM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 6003
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
KCJeep, the funny thing about me buying this ammo was, I didn't ever read any PR on it. ACADEMY is my go to ammo store when I want just a few boxes of ammo instead of 1K's of rounds. I saw it on sale for $9.99 a box of 25. I bought 8 boxes of it and have 4 left. I then started reading about it and my son and I started testing it. Windshields, washers and dryers, car doors, drywall, etc. This is/was a fun round to shoot. Now I have 3 mags loaded with it for my SD9. It's not an HST or a SPEER GD, but it sure will get the job done for me.
KC, if your dept. would let you use any round that YOU wanted to use, which one would it be? Y'all are still carrying .40 cals., right?


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#4750671 - 05/07/18 10:13 PM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
Marco620 Offline


Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 2085
Loc: Deplorable in Kansas, HK fan b...
I like the Sig Sauer 147gr hp in my Heckler & Koch VP9s and Walther.
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#4750806 - 05/08/18 06:08 AM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 6987
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Yes still carrying .40s. I would be perfectly content with Golden Sabers, Gold Dots or HSTs, all of which are known for reliable and radical expansion.

As we talked about before BOF, the 9mm 147s have pretty much stunk on the street (and they do pretty well in the FBI tests) in a 9mm I would want something +P+ in 115 or 124 grain for duty use again in Sabers, Gold Dots or HSTs.
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#4750865 - 05/08/18 08:15 AM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
john_pifer Offline


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 1881
Loc: Nashville, TN via Memphis
Perfect illustration of the FACT that gov't choice of gun/ammo/airplanes/tanks/ships/everything else is mostly politics and backroom deals, and the actual performance of the equipment in question is usually way down the priority list.

The government is so freaking incompetent.

This is off-topic, but I just saw and article this morning on the overheat condition of the 4 main propeller shaft bearings on the new Gerald Ford aircraft carrier. How in the world could someone let a part that critical, get screwed up? Furthermore, the article seemed to imply that there's no warranty from GE, meaning that WE, as taxpayers, will be footing the bill for someone's imcompetence.

A project that big, and components that critical, the Navy should have had their people in the dam machining room, supervising that job.

Check Drudge Report for the article.
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#4750878 - 05/08/18 08:35 AM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41658
Loc: New Jersey
It seems to me that these Hornady defensive rounds are better implemented in handgun calibers and loads.

But a test on this OP one specifically:

https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-135-gr-p-jhp-flexlock-hornady-critical-duty-25-rounds#geltest

HST is more like 0.61-0.66" vs 0.43"

But I'd suspect these may work better through metal and wood.

Do we have a basis of the acquisition criteria and outcome of objective testing before just blindly bashing the gov't and saying it's all wrong?

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#4750954 - 05/08/18 10:11 AM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: JHZR2]
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 6003
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
It seems to me that these Hornady defensive rounds are better implemented in handgun calibers and loads.

But a test on this OP one specifically:

https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-135-gr-p-jhp-flexlock-hornady-critical-duty-25-rounds#geltest

HST is more like 0.61-0.66" vs 0.43"

But I'd suspect these may work better through metal and wood.

Do we have a basis of the acquisition criteria and outcome of objective testing before just blindly bashing the gov't and saying it's all wrong?

Touche! Very good point, Sir. fence
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"One Filter, One OCI!"

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#4750966 - 05/08/18 10:20 AM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: KCJeep]
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 6003
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Yes still carrying .40s. I would be perfectly content with Golden Sabers, Gold Dots or HSTs, all of which are known for reliable and radical expansion.

As we talked about before BOF, the 9mm 147s have pretty much stunk on the street (and they do pretty well in the FBI tests) in a 9mm I would want something +P+ in 115 or 124 grain for duty use again in Sabers, Gold Dots or HSTs.

Yes, KC, we both agreed that the .40 was the ideal round. And, I still stand by that decision. In the (3) .40 cal. guns I own, one has HST, one has PDX1, and the last one has Underwood GD. This one particular 9mm has the Hornady CD because of the price I paid for them. My other 9's have OATH, HST, and the old CORBON DPX that expand to .89".
_________________________
2007 F150 XL, 4.2 V6, 4R75E Transmission
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W40, WIX 51516 XP Oil Filter
"One Filter, One OCI!"

USA

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#4751187 - 05/08/18 02:10 PM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17498
Loc: PNW
Stop chasing the Unicorn and go for Federal HST.

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#4751713 - 05/09/18 04:50 AM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: ZeeOSix]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4215
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Stop chasing the Unicorn and go for Federal HST.


I have to agree. Some of this ammo chasing gets ridiculous.

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#4751795 - 05/09/18 07:59 AM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8445
Loc: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I came across this article over the weekend about the FBI selecting Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock 9mm +P 135 gr. as its issue ammunition. I have been using this ammo in my SD9 since last year.

https://press.hornady.com/release/2018/04/26/hornady-awarded-fbi-9mmp-service-ammunition-contract/



Using?

Or carrying?

You obsess a lot about ammo.

But you don't report shooting it, which is what you should do to ensure reliable function in your particular gun/magazine combination.

The minor differences in performance between modern ammo loadings are not nearly as important as being certain that the ammo works in YOUR gun with YOUR magazines.

You can bet that the FBI conducted extensive testing before selecting an ammunition. Ballistics tests, function tests, reliability tests, all of it. But then, and this is important, they awarded a contract based on those factors and some others: cost, delivery rates, etc. So, is the Hornady good ammo? Sure. So is the Speer, and the Federal, and lots of others. I happen to have a few thousand rounds of Federal HST in 9mm. Works perfectly in every 9mm I own. I'm good.

I also SHOOT the ammo I select. And I shoot the ammo that's been loaded for six months. Once it's been loaded for a while, it's been exposed to dirt, temperature, maybe even a bit of lube, if I wasn't careful. It's also been banged around inside the magazine, and perhaps chambered several times as the gun was loaded and unloaded for range practice. At that point, the chance of a malfunction goes up, so I shoot it for practice and load the gun with fresh ammo. The Federal Agency for whom I used to work issued new duty ammo every six months. We could keep the old ammo (I did) and use it for practice (and I did). That's a good rule: change out your carry ammo every six months.

So, pick an ammo. Buy a case and save some $$. Use some to verify function. Change it out every six months.

And shoot it.
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#4752487 - 05/09/18 10:38 PM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: Astro14]
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 6003
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I came across this article over the weekend about the FBI selecting Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock 9mm +P 135 gr. as its issue ammunition. I have been using this ammo in my SD9 since last year.

https://press.hornady.com/release/2018/04/26/hornady-awarded-fbi-9mmp-service-ammunition-contract/



Using?

Or carrying?

You obsess a lot about ammo.

But you don't report shooting it, which is what you should do to ensure reliable function in your particular gun/magazine combination.

The minor differences in performance between modern ammo loadings are not nearly as important as being certain that the ammo works in YOUR gun with YOUR magazines.

You can bet that the FBI conducted extensive testing before selecting an ammunition. Ballistics tests, function tests, reliability tests, all of it. But then, and this is important, they awarded a contract based on those factors and some others: cost, delivery rates, etc. So, is the Hornady good ammo? Sure. So is the Speer, and the Federal, and lots of others. I happen to have a few thousand rounds of Federal HST in 9mm. Works perfectly in every 9mm I own. I'm good.

I also SHOOT the ammo I select. And I shoot the ammo that's been loaded for six months. Once it's been loaded for a while, it's been exposed to dirt, temperature, maybe even a bit of lube, if I wasn't careful. It's also been banged around inside the magazine, and perhaps chambered several times as the gun was loaded and unloaded for range practice. At that point, the chance of a malfunction goes up, so I shoot it for practice and load the gun with fresh ammo. The Federal Agency for whom I used to work issued new duty ammo every six months. We could keep the old ammo (I did) and use it for practice (and I did). That's a good rule: change out your carry ammo every six months.

So, pick an ammo. Buy a case and save some $$. Use some to verify function. Change it out every six months.

And shoot it.

YES, using it. AKA-shooting it. I bought 8 boxes and have USED-AKA-SHOT 4 boxes of it since last year. In my posts up there ^^^^^ you will see what my son and I USED-AKA-SHOT it at. smile
Yes, I obsess A LOT about ammo. I wish I could have a bed of it to lie in and just roll around in it, cover myself with it, ............OH MY, am I dreaming again?
But, yeah, I LOVE shooting more than ANYTHING in this world. Guns have ALWAYS been my favorite hobby since as far back as I can remember to a youth!
_________________________
2007 F150 XL, 4.2 V6, 4R75E Transmission
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W40, WIX 51516 XP Oil Filter
"One Filter, One OCI!"

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#4752688 - 05/10/18 08:03 AM Re: Hornady Critical Duty And FBI [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
bubbatime Offline


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 5573
Loc: South Florida
Critical Defense and Critical Duty are near the bottom of what I would ever load in my pistol.

A famous quote comes to mind: "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
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