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Noack Volatility? #4750093
05/07/18 10:52 AM
05/07/18 10:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
How important is Noack Volatility in the quality of motor oils today? Is it more important in synthetic motor oils than in conventional motor oils? Now that our more modern engines have DI, turbo's, and increased horse power, the extra heat has to wreak more havoc on the engine oil. How would the Noack Volatility testing help with these extra heat contributors?

Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750225
05/07/18 01:38 PM
05/07/18 01:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,484
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,484
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Biggest effect high NOACK has is burning off lighter parts of the oil, leaving thicker stuff behind, requiring more top offs and potentially causing carbon in the combustion chamber.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: bullwinkle] #4750252
05/07/18 02:19 PM
05/07/18 02:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Biggest effect high NOACK has is burning off lighter parts of the oil, leaving thicker stuff behind, requiring more top offs and potentially causing carbon in the combustion chamber.

In that case, you would think it would be wiser to choose an oil for a DI engine with a lower Noack number over, say, a required 5W30 oil, right? ???
I did a GOOGLE search about it and found this;
http://www.perkinelmer.com/CMSResources/...lVolatility.pdf

Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750308
05/07/18 03:30 PM
05/07/18 03:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,835
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
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Posts: 1,835
.
Some engine oil makers say they donít disclose Noack volatility because the results are imprecise and hard to repeat, as suggested in the article you attached. So I wouldnít place too much emphasis on that measure.

And while engines are getting more sophisticated and power dense, it doesnít necessarily follow that oil temps are higher: they still broadly follow coolant temperature unless the use is extreme.

I donít think you can go wrong with one of the major brands; maybe stick with a dexos1Gen2 and/or SN Plus. If you want to go a step further you may want to look at MSDS documents to see how much PAO/GTL is used, which tend to contribute to better Noack results. Some Mobil1 products are PAO rich and we know Pennzoil is a big GTL user.

Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750334
05/07/18 03:56 PM
05/07/18 03:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 567
sonoma
burla Online content
burla  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 567
sonoma
Depends on how the NOACK numbers are achieved, if the low NOACK was achieved by dumping in a bunch of Vii's it is a temporary number dependent on when those very vii's shear off, if the NOACK is achieved by group 4/5 base oil the NOACK is closer to a stable number.

Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: Danh] #4750346
05/07/18 04:15 PM
05/07/18 04:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: Danh
Some engine oil makers say they donít disclose Noack volatility because the results are imprecise and hard to repeat, as suggested in the article you attached. So I wouldnít place too much emphasis on that measure.

And while engines are getting more sophisticated and power dense, it doesnít necessarily follow that oil temps are higher: they still broadly follow coolant temperature unless the use is extreme.

I donít think you can go wrong with one of the major brands; maybe stick with a dexos1Gen2 and/or SN Plus. If you want to go a step further you may want to look at MSDS documents to see how much PAO/GTL is used, which tend to contribute to better Noack results. Some Mobil1 products are PAO rich and we know Pennzoil is a big GTL user.

Does Pennzoil have the advantage over other brands being it uses GTL decisively? How about AMSOIL?

Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750395
05/07/18 05:17 PM
05/07/18 05:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,654
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,654
Oregon
NOACK volatility is a good indicator for how clean it will keep the rings and turbocharger. Places where the oil gets extremely hot (north of 400F). The less that burns off, the less deposits form. Generally, the lighter the baseoil, the more it burns off.


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750422
05/07/18 05:38 PM
05/07/18 05:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,484
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,484
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Danh
Some engine oil makers say they donít disclose Noack volatility because the results are imprecise and hard to repeat, as suggested in the article you attached. So I wouldnít place too much emphasis on that measure.

And while engines are getting more sophisticated and power dense, it doesnít necessarily follow that oil temps are higher: they still broadly follow coolant temperature unless the use is extreme.

I donít think you can go wrong with one of the major brands; maybe stick with a dexos1Gen2 and/or SN Plus. If you want to go a step further you may want to look at MSDS documents to see how much PAO/GTL is used, which tend to contribute to better Noack results. Some Mobil1 products are PAO rich and we know Pennzoil is a big GTL user.

Does Pennzoil have the advantage over other brands being it uses GTL decisively? How about AMSOIL?
Pennzoil (PYB 5W20) did have some awesome NOACK numbers, for a while (2013), as reported by PQIA-but not anymore:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/Feb2014/consolidated5w20ALL.html
DI engines seem to be a special case, the jury is still out (other than 2nd Gen. Dexos).


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750679
05/07/18 09:23 PM
05/07/18 09:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,595
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,595
PNW
I have a thread in this forum comparing the major brands in 5W-30, and they all were around 11% NOACK and lower, which is pretty good since you'll never find much out there that's 7% or less.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...-30#Post4745039

Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4750807
05/08/18 05:08 AM
05/08/18 05:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I have a thread in this forum comparing the major brands in 5W-30, and they all were around 11% NOACK and lower, which is pretty good since you'll never find much out there that's 7% or less.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...-30#Post4745039

Thanks Z06, I missed that thread.
I see the PP/PUP has the lowest Noack # in that chart.
What do you use in your Z06 'Vette, if you don't mind me asking?

Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4750821
05/08/18 05:41 AM
05/08/18 05:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,565
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,565
New England
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I have a thread in this forum comparing the major brands in 5W-30, and they all were around 11% NOACK and lower, which is pretty good since you'll never find much out there that's 7% or less.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...-30#Post4745039

Thanks Z06, I missed that thread.
I see the PP/PUP has the lowest Noack # in that chart.
...

I believe that PP NOACK loss is for the obsolete dexos1 5W30 product...I have no reason to suspect that their d1G2 offering will be a lot different, but I haven't seen a test result for it yet and SOPUS doesn't share that info in the PDS.
The PQIA reported the NOACK loss for M1 5W30 AP as 8.5%, just in case you feel like spending $40 for a jug of oil! If you are looking to spend even more, you can get M1 5W30 ESP or try Ravenol's 5W30 DXG, both around 6% NOACK loss and maybe about $50 for 5l.


2014 Forester XT, 95000 miles
Last Change;
M1 0W30 AFE d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4751163
05/08/18 12:41 PM
05/08/18 12:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,595
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,595
PNW
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I have a thread in this forum comparing the major brands in 5W-30, and they all were around 11% NOACK and lower, which is pretty good since you'll never find much out there that's 7% or less.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...-30#Post4745039

Thanks Z06, I missed that thread.
I see the PP/PUP has the lowest Noack # in that chart.
What do you use in your Z06 'Vette, if you don't mind me asking?


Mobil 1 full synthetic, same as the factory fill. Wanted to try something different to see if the engine sounds any different.

Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4751636
05/08/18 09:16 PM
05/08/18 09:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,218
Pennsylbammyvania
dailydriver Offline
dailydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,218
Pennsylbammyvania
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
If you are looking to spend even more, you can get M1 5W30 ESP or try Ravenol's 5W30 DXG, both around 6% NOACK loss and maybe about $50 for 5l.


I will happily GLADLY pay well OVER $50.00 for a 5L jug of the D1G2 DXG when it is available! wink

BTW; Most places get ~ $13.19/quart for the 5W-30 ESP Formula, but yes, depending on how much you buy at a time online, that can go down to ~$8.50/quart. (Does XOM even bottle it in 5 quart jugs?)


2016 Ford Fiesta ST 14K miles
Ravenol DXG 5W-30
Amsoil Ea15K51 filter
Ravenol MTF-2 in the IB6 transaxle
Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: dailydriver] #4751762
05/09/18 05:50 AM
05/09/18 05:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,565
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,565
New England
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
If you are looking to spend even more, you can get M1 5W30 ESP or try Ravenol's 5W30 DXG, both around 6% NOACK loss and maybe about $50 for 5l.

I will happily GLADLY pay well OVER $50.00 for a 5L jug of the D1G2 DXG when it is available! wink
BTW; Most places get ~ $13.19/quart for the 5W-30 ESP Formula, but yes, depending on how much you buy at a time online, that can go down to ~$8.50/quart. (Does XOM even bottle it in 5 quart jugs?)

I can't remember the exact deal I got on ESP, something like $100 for 12 liters on Amazon...all I know is that it was under $10/l. This was a while ago and I think it was more expensive there the last time I looked...I have noticed that 4l or 5l jugs are available in Europe, but have never seen them in a shop or on Amazon here.

I'm with you on the Ravenol, interested to try it even at the present Amazon prices. Just need d1G2 to show up!


2014 Forester XT, 95000 miles
Last Change;
M1 0W30 AFE d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Noack Volatility? [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4769236
05/27/18 06:50 AM
05/27/18 06:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 127
MA
PWMDMD Offline
PWMDMD  Offline
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 127
MA
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
If you are looking to spend even more, you can get M1 5W30 ESP or try Ravenol's 5W30 DXG, both around 6% NOACK loss and maybe about $50 for 5l.

I will happily GLADLY pay well OVER $50.00 for a 5L jug of the D1G2 DXG when it is available! wink
BTW; Most places get ~ $13.19/quart for the 5W-30 ESP Formula, but yes, depending on how much you buy at a time online, that can go down to ~$8.50/quart. (Does XOM even bottle it in 5 quart jugs?)

I can't remember the exact deal I got on ESP, something like $100 for 12 liters on Amazon...all I know is that it was under $10/l. This was a while ago and I think it was more expensive there the last time I looked...I have noticed that 4l or 5l jugs are available in Europe, but have never seen them in a shop or on Amazon here.

I'm with you on the Ravenol, interested to try it even at the present Amazon prices. Just need d1G2 to show up!


I donít know why Iím so intrigued with Ravenol but I am - I donít know why Iím so intrigued with freaking engine oil but here I am. Does anyone have any idea when Ravenol 0W-20 DFE will be available in the US? Itís listed on the Ravenol America website but has no price and can not be added to the cart.

One of the areas where I think Ravenol does a poor job is in their marketing. The three different varieties of 0W-20 come in the same container, use virtually the same language in their description, seem to be a similar formulation and while I guess theyíre specifications are different, itís not until you see their spec sheets side-by-side you see any obvious differences in the products.


Current: 2018 Honda Pilot Touring (Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 and Fram ULTRA XG7317) and 2014 Mazda5 (Ravenol ECS 0W-20 and Fram ULTRA XG3614)
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