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Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. #4749963
05/07/18 07:46 AM
05/07/18 07:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
goodtimes Offline OP
goodtimes  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
Why is it? The Ultra is supposed to be the best flowing, strongest, but for racing they don't choose it. Just a question, nothing more.

Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: goodtimes] #4749966
05/07/18 07:49 AM
05/07/18 07:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,244
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,244
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Aren't race car engines regularly torn down and rebuilt? So longevity isn't a concern?

Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: goodtimes] #4749968
05/07/18 07:52 AM
05/07/18 07:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,845
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Offline
LeakySeals  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,845
Hudson, NH
I think the context of the claim was best flowing compared to other 99.9% @20um rated filters. My 6.0 lq9 has mild piston slap and lifter rattle at startup using an Ultra. Switched to a TG, pretty much gone. So real life experience says it is slightly restrictive. That may be ok for some engines, not others.


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 0w40
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: goodtimes] #4749969
05/07/18 07:52 AM
05/07/18 07:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 500
Indy
69Torino Offline
69Torino  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 500
Indy
Ultra media is very efficient, and efficiency sacrifices flow usually. The Fram HP line is not efficient (as far as particulate removal) but flows like crazy.


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Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: Reddy45] #4749976
05/07/18 08:00 AM
05/07/18 08:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,743
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,743
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Aren't race car engines regularly torn down and rebuilt? So longevity isn't a concern?


If you ask any F1 team I think they might say longevity is a huge concern.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: goodtimes] #4749986
05/07/18 08:14 AM
05/07/18 08:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,113
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,113
Kalifornia Kollective
In racing the engine starts out clean (from the clean room build), so the job of the filter is to catch bits of Fe metals and other debris that could cause instant damage. They are not looking for microscopic wear metals and ultra small particles.

Many race engines use a dry sump, so lots of space to settle big pieces. They need flow of oil for cooling and lube more that they need efficiency ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: goodtimes] #4750016
05/07/18 08:58 AM
05/07/18 08:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,328
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline
Snagglefoot  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,328
SE British Columbia, Canada
I think the main feature of a racing filter is that it needs to filter high volumes without going into the bypass mode. A more restrictive media might cause a bypass condition at high rpm.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: goodtimes] #4750024
05/07/18 09:13 AM
05/07/18 09:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,771
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,771
Indiana
Fram says something about for racing use only too, which I find interesting.

Are they around 50% effecient?

I just like them for the paint job on a classic car. Always liked the extra guard, but a solid glossy orange would sure look nice.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 153k Synpower 5w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: LeakySeals] #4750040
05/07/18 09:51 AM
05/07/18 09:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,456
Massachusetts
deven Offline
deven  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,456
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I think the context of the claim was best flowing compared to other 99.9% @20um rated filters. My 6.0 lq9 has mild piston slap and lifter rattle at startup using an Ultra. Switched to a TG, pretty much gone. So real life experience says it is slightly restrictive. That may be ok for some engines, not others.

I had the same issue. Switched to OEM filter and problem gone!


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2016 Acura RLX Sports Hybrid(Royal Purple HPS 5w30 + M1-110 oil filter)

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. IT'S ONLY OIL
Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: goodtimes] #4750055
05/07/18 10:13 AM
05/07/18 10:13 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,295
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,295
N.H, U.S.A.
I too had issue with ULTRA on a Subaru. TG worked OK so it wasn't the baseplate design causing cavitation in the filter can. On the Nissan only Champ Labs (M1) filters work to silence off racket, and the larger V8 Titan one at that. I GUARANTEE that if I continued to run NISSAN OEM filters the engine would be TRASHED just like what happened with my porr Versa Note; 1.6L Engine killed one cold day by poor flowing China made Nissan garbage filter - And it was only like 27F not sub zero!

Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 05/07/18 10:13 AM.

2019 VW Jetta S,6M OCI#0 62mi-Castrol Edge Prof VW508+OE Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#5 37K mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: deven] #4750081
05/07/18 10:35 AM
05/07/18 10:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 592
Arkansas
mazdamonky Offline
mazdamonky  Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 592
Arkansas
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I think the context of the claim was best flowing compared to other 99.9% @20um rated filters. My 6.0 lq9 has mild piston slap and lifter rattle at startup using an Ultra. Switched to a TG, pretty much gone. So real life experience says it is slightly restrictive. That may be ok for some engines, not others.

I had the same issue. Switched to OEM filter and problem gone!


This sounds to me more like a problem with the Bypass valve not opening up as it should? maybe it requires a very slight bit more pressure for some reason?


2018 mazda3 hatch 2.5 263 miles
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Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: deven] #4750144
05/07/18 11:39 AM
05/07/18 11:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,099
socal
barkingspider Offline
barkingspider  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,099
socal
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I think the context of the claim was best flowing compared to other 99.9% @20um rated filters. My 6.0 lq9 has mild piston slap and lifter rattle at startup using an Ultra. Switched to a TG, pretty much gone. So real life experience says it is slightly restrictive. That may be ok for some engines, not others.

I had the same issue. Switched to OEM filter and problem gone!


Agree. I use jobber type, 5k mile, or ac delco filters w zero issues. I tried the ultra once and never again.


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Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: goodtimes] #4750262
05/07/18 02:31 PM
05/07/18 02:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,647
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,647
Oregon
Race engines flow an incredible amount of oil, more than typical media can handle without bypassing, so they use a more porous media to increase flow at the expense of efficiency. Makes sense. Better to have all the oil filtered to some extent than a portion of it not filtered at all (due to bypassing).

FWIW, I was at a Formula Drift event back in April, and nearly everyone was using the K&N racing oil filter.

Last edited by 1JZ_E46; 05/07/18 02:32 PM.

2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4750284
05/07/18 02:57 PM
05/07/18 02:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Race engines flow an incredible amount of oil, more than typical media can handle without bypassing, so they use a more porous media to increase flow at the expense of efficiency.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Fram says something about for racing use only too, which I find interesting. Are they around 50% effecient?
Originally Posted By: 69Torino
Ultra media is very efficient, and efficiency sacrifices flow usually. The Fram HP line is not efficient (as far as particulate removal) but flows like crazy.


A lot of bad information here.

Racing only usage? No. Fram says they can be used on the street, everday use. Really the media they use looks kinda typical. Strong blended glass fiber and paper media, made to take abuse. Street, yes.

Efficiency bad? No, it filters very well. 94% at 20 microns is better than most of the the oil filters out there. Not bad at all. Close to a Wix NapaGold rating actually. Range of %'s at 20 microns of all filters you can get are around ~50% to 99.5%, so this one is quite good at 94%. .... http://www.fram.com/media/1075/fram-racing-filter-sell-sheet.pdf

They could have used the Fram Ultra's media. It flows just fine. I'm not sure why they went with the glass fiber paper blend type. It does work though.



*Metal end caps
*silicone adbv
*extremely thick tapping plate and can
*screen over bypass valve
*94% efficient @ 20 microns


Originally Posted By: Motorking
Originally Posted By: CT8
They have the screen over the bypass Like the Tough Guard used to have. I wonder why the U G element isn't used?

This filter media was engineered for flow, not capacity. It is a real nice balance of high flow and decent 94%@20 mcron efficiency. Still has enough capacity to meet OE change interval of any modern high performance car.




https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4346078/1

Last edited by oil_film_movies; 05/07/18 02:57 PM.
Re: Fram Ultra media not used in their racing filter. [Re: goodtimes] #4750339
05/07/18 04:03 PM
05/07/18 04:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,271
North Carolina
rooflessVW Online content
rooflessVW  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,271
North Carolina
Any idea why the HP20 has a bypass valve when the 3506 doesn't?


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
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