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#4748654 - 05/05/18 06:40 PM Big Rigs, hydrogen powered
CourierDriver Offline


Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 5012
Loc: Tn.
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#4748688 - 05/05/18 07:34 PM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36752
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Interesting, to me in particular, because I know there has been some significant advocacy to have the nuke plants produce the hydrogen.

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/press...en-economy.html
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#4748728 - 05/05/18 08:14 PM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver]
jhellwig Offline


Registered: 07/01/13
Posts: 1595
Loc: Ottumwa, Iowa
I bet the dates will be pushed back or not happen.

I am seeing several natural gas powered or suplimented trucks around my area.
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#4748754 - 05/05/18 08:33 PM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41975
Loc: New Jersey
Fuel cells are good for baseload. Delivery trucks, which do not go long distance, and are often used in more crowded areas where pollution is a consideration, would be well suited to fuel cells.

They have to be hybridized and already require power elecronics and VFDs.
The hybridization allows for energy recovery which is well suited to a start-stop scenario like delivery, garbage collection, etc.
Larger individual users would allow for larger plants or more cost-effective infrastructure
High-temperature electrolysis is not super efficient, but it is much better than low temperature variants, and could be a good way to baseload power stations and renewables.

There's some logic to this application, with lots of remaining technical challenges...

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#4748758 - 05/05/18 08:39 PM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4471
Loc: Taiwan
"Medium- and heavy-duty trucks contributed 23 percent of the overall greenhouse gas emissions in 2015, according to the EPA. In total, transportation contributed 27 percent of overall greenhouse gas emissions in 2015."

So total transport emmissions, excluding Medium- and heavy-duty trucks, were 4% of total? Phooey

Should probably read "Medium- and heavy-duty trucks contributed 23 percent of transportation greenhouse gas emissions in 2015"

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#4748762 - 05/05/18 08:42 PM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 40483
Loc: 'Stralia
We're not going to be burning fossil fuels at 40% (or 60% for CCGT) to make hydrogen.

I'm not a "hydrogen economy" proponent, but this makes more sense than their competitor's views.

Using "renewables" to make hydrogen/charge batteries doesn't necessarily make the outcome "green"

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#4748779 - 05/05/18 09:03 PM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver]
pandus13 Offline


Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 3345
Loc: Chicago,IL,USA
So the morale of the story is others are not sleeping at the wheel and are researching this market knowing fully well that the niche is in the big transporters with known routes+transports...

I wonder if there will be additional "green" credits for implementers?

But sometime the PR....
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#4748950 - 05/06/18 04:40 AM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver]
skyactiv Offline


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 4625
Loc: The Midwest
Is this a fake news ploy Anheuser tapped into to in an attempt to look environmentally friendly?
From what I understand, they own no trucks. Third parties transport and distribute the beer.

Werner Transportation has the Columbus, OH brewery contract to transport finished beer to the distributors
and the distributors are independently owned.
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#4749094 - 05/06/18 09:21 AM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver]
SubieRubyRoo Offline


Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 1255
Loc: Winchester, Indiana
Skyactiv, Werner has all the empty transport as well from all of our glass plants to all of ABI's breweries. I'm sure InBed isn't buying trucks for Werner! I don't know about the retail side of their business, though.

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#4749132 - 05/06/18 09:51 AM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: Shannow]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41975
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Shannow
We're not going to be burning fossil fuels at 40% (or 60% for CCGT) to make hydrogen.

I'm not a "hydrogen economy" proponent, but this makes more sense than their competitor's views.

Using "renewables" to make hydrogen/charge batteries doesn't necessarily make the outcome "green"


Agreed. Burning anything to make the power is ridiculous.

Nothing is "green". Not fossil fuels, not "renewables", etc. Everything has some baggage. Its where you stick that baggage, and centralize/decentralize to better manage it or control release of certain pollutants.

IMO, fuels (liquids and propane/CNG) should be generally saved for mobility given energy density. H2 obviously has tremendous energy density, but the storage/stowage is more of a challenge. Delivery trucks that have a higher use and less downtime would be a better user than, say, a passenger car where some of mine might not get refueled for 6 months.

Some people would poop in their drinking water since its easy and cost effective...

I also have to laugh a bit at those who would want to play ostrich on the basis of component tech not being ready, yet also complaining about trying to develop and push the component tech that is the foundation of new approaches.

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#4749844 - 05/07/18 03:09 AM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: JHZR2]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 40483
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Agreed. Burning anything to make the power is ridiculous.

Nothing is "green". Not fossil fuels, not "renewables", etc. Everything has some baggage. Its where you stick that baggage, and centralize/decentralize to better manage it or control release of certain pollutants.

IMO, fuels (liquids and propane/CNG) should be generally saved for mobility given energy density. H2 obviously has tremendous energy density, but the storage/stowage is more of a challenge. Delivery trucks that have a higher use and less downtime would be a better user than, say, a passenger car where some of mine might not get refueled for 6 months.


Very much on the same page...the fuels with the highest utility should be transport fuels has been my premise for my entire engineering career.

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#4760134 - 05/17/18 04:49 PM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver]
userfriendly Offline


Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2665
Loc: LaFinDuMonde

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#4762581 - 05/20/18 02:36 AM Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver]
OilFilters Offline


Registered: 10/07/15
Posts: 308
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:
Milton said that the cost for each fuel-cell truck would rival $0.90 to $1 per mile traveled, including the truck, fuel, and consumables.


That is significantly more than a normal diesel truck.

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