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Big Rigs, hydrogen powered #4748654
05/05/18 06:40 PM
05/05/18 06:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,094
Tn.
CourierDriver Offline OP
CourierDriver  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,094
Tn.


Forks Over Knives , see the movie on netflix

Antibiotics in beef: Burger chains are failing the test
Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver] #4748688
05/05/18 07:34 PM
05/05/18 07:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,494
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,494
Ontario, Canada
Interesting, to me in particular, because I know there has been some significant advocacy to have the nuke plants produce the hydrogen.

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/press...en-economy.html


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver] #4748728
05/05/18 08:14 PM
05/05/18 08:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,753
Ottumwa, Iowa
jhellwig Offline
jhellwig  Offline
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,753
Ottumwa, Iowa
I bet the dates will be pushed back or not happen.

I am seeing several natural gas powered or suplimented trucks around my area.


Sparks fly from my fingers.

1995 Chevy K2500 Suburban lt 5.7
2014 Toyota Sienna
1983 Chevy K5 350
Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver] #4748754
05/05/18 08:33 PM
05/05/18 08:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,156
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,156
New Jersey
Fuel cells are good for baseload. Delivery trucks, which do not go long distance, and are often used in more crowded areas where pollution is a consideration, would be well suited to fuel cells.

They have to be hybridized and already require power elecronics and VFDs.
The hybridization allows for energy recovery which is well suited to a start-stop scenario like delivery, garbage collection, etc.
Larger individual users would allow for larger plants or more cost-effective infrastructure
High-temperature electrolysis is not super efficient, but it is much better than low temperature variants, and could be a good way to baseload power stations and renewables.

There's some logic to this application, with lots of remaining technical challenges...

Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver] #4748758
05/05/18 08:39 PM
05/05/18 08:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,793
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,793
Taiwan
"Medium- and heavy-duty trucks contributed 23 percent of the overall greenhouse gas emissions in 2015, according to the EPA. In total, transportation contributed 27 percent of overall greenhouse gas emissions in 2015."

So total transport emmissions, excluding Medium- and heavy-duty trucks, were 4% of total? Phooey

Should probably read "Medium- and heavy-duty trucks contributed 23 percent of transportation greenhouse gas emissions in 2015"

Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver] #4748762
05/05/18 08:42 PM
05/05/18 08:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,212
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,212
'Stralia
We're not going to be burning fossil fuels at 40% (or 60% for CCGT) to make hydrogen.

I'm not a "hydrogen economy" proponent, but this makes more sense than their competitor's views.

Using "renewables" to make hydrogen/charge batteries doesn't necessarily make the outcome "green"

Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver] #4748779
05/05/18 09:03 PM
05/05/18 09:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,366
Chicago,IL,USA
pandus13 Offline
pandus13  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,366
Chicago,IL,USA
So the morale of the story is others are not sleeping at the wheel and are researching this market knowing fully well that the niche is in the big transporters with known routes+transports...

I wonder if there will be additional "green" credits for implementers?

But sometime the PR....


16 Golf SportWagen
13 Mazda5
08 Yaris
04 Elantra
95 accent
95 mystique
97 concorde
Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver] #4748950
05/06/18 04:40 AM
05/06/18 04:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,866
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,866
The Midwest
Is this a fake news ploy Anheuser tapped into to in an attempt to look environmentally friendly?
From what I understand, they own no trucks. Third parties transport and distribute the beer.

Werner Transportation has the Columbus, OH brewery contract to transport finished beer to the distributors
and the distributors are independently owned.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver] #4749094
05/06/18 09:21 AM
05/06/18 09:21 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,590
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,590
The land of USA-made Subies!
Skyactiv, Werner has all the empty transport as well from all of our glass plants to all of ABI's breweries. I'm sure InBed isn't buying trucks for Werner! I don't know about the retail side of their business, though.

Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: Shannow] #4749132
05/06/18 09:51 AM
05/06/18 09:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,156
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,156
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Shannow
We're not going to be burning fossil fuels at 40% (or 60% for CCGT) to make hydrogen.

I'm not a "hydrogen economy" proponent, but this makes more sense than their competitor's views.

Using "renewables" to make hydrogen/charge batteries doesn't necessarily make the outcome "green"


Agreed. Burning anything to make the power is ridiculous.

Nothing is "green". Not fossil fuels, not "renewables", etc. Everything has some baggage. Its where you stick that baggage, and centralize/decentralize to better manage it or control release of certain pollutants.

IMO, fuels (liquids and propane/CNG) should be generally saved for mobility given energy density. H2 obviously has tremendous energy density, but the storage/stowage is more of a challenge. Delivery trucks that have a higher use and less downtime would be a better user than, say, a passenger car where some of mine might not get refueled for 6 months.

Some people would poop in their drinking water since its easy and cost effective...

I also have to laugh a bit at those who would want to play ostrich on the basis of component tech not being ready, yet also complaining about trying to develop and push the component tech that is the foundation of new approaches.

Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: JHZR2] #4749844
05/07/18 03:09 AM
05/07/18 03:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,212
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,212
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Agreed. Burning anything to make the power is ridiculous.

Nothing is "green". Not fossil fuels, not "renewables", etc. Everything has some baggage. Its where you stick that baggage, and centralize/decentralize to better manage it or control release of certain pollutants.

IMO, fuels (liquids and propane/CNG) should be generally saved for mobility given energy density. H2 obviously has tremendous energy density, but the storage/stowage is more of a challenge. Delivery trucks that have a higher use and less downtime would be a better user than, say, a passenger car where some of mine might not get refueled for 6 months.


Very much on the same page...the fuels with the highest utility should be transport fuels has been my premise for my entire engineering career.

Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver] #4760134
05/17/18 04:49 PM
05/17/18 04:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,724
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline
userfriendly  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,724
BC, Canada

Re: Big Rigs, hydrogen powered [Re: CourierDriver] #4762581
05/20/18 02:36 AM
05/20/18 02:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 308
North Carolina
OilFilters Offline
OilFilters  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 308
North Carolina
Quote:
Milton said that the cost for each fuel-cell truck would rival $0.90 to $1 per mile traveled, including the truck, fuel, and consumables.


That is significantly more than a normal diesel truck.


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