Engine Noise vs Wear Protection

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So, I made a thread yesterday about Motorcraft oil being noisy in my 2.5L Escape and how VAS/SynPower made it noticeably quieter. What I didn't mention is that whatever bulk oil came in my Vic was quieter while after putting in the same oil as the Escape (VAS/SynPower) it's a tad noisier. I was planning to standardize my oil across all three vehicles but I haven't changed the oil in the Suburban yet since I pretty much don't drive it, though I'm tempted to because I'd be curious if the VAS/SynPower makes any difference in noise in that one compared to the Chevron Supreme that's in there now. I just want to minimize how much oil I have on hand and I picked VAS/SynPower because it's name brand, quality, and available for about $22 on Walmart or Amazon and always in stock.

TL;DR: What really I want to know is if less engine noise = better wear protection, or just that different oils have different properties that change the noise.
 
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Generally the quieter a engine runs the better but it depends on the source of the noise. Obviously noise from valvetrains or bearing noise would not be a good sign.

I think you cannot equate the two.
 
My 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8 was noticeably quieter running Valvoline Synthetic than Motorcraft oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
My 2013 Mustang 5.0 V8 was noticeably quieter running Valvoline Synthetic than Motorcraft oil.


So, Motorcraft is noisy, but what I'm trying to understand is if the noise is actually wear occurring in the engine, and quieter engines are wearing less, or the noise is just a noise.
 
IMO as a long time mechanic any additional noise is no good! The quieter an engine is, the smoother and better it is running. Mechanical noise can never be a good thing! Think about it... if you have piston slap, rocker arm noise, lifter tapping, cam chain noise whatever and it gets quieter with a certain oil, that oil is protecting better, cushioning the part and dampening the sound.

Noise is the sole reason I won't use Mobil 1...
 
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Originally Posted By: racin4ds
IMO as a long time mechanic any additional noise is no good! The quieter an engine is, the smoother and better it is running. Mechanical noise can never be a good thing! Think about it... if you have piston slap, rocker arm noise, lifter tapping, cam chain noise whatever and it gets quieter with a certain oil, that oil is protecting better, cushioning the part and dampening the sound.

Noise is the sole reason I won't use Mobil 1...


Same with airguns- usually a mechanism will tell you what it likes and what it doesn't.
The problem is that the most vocal naysayers are usually half deaf.
 
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
IMO as a long time mechanic any additional noise is no good! The quieter an engine is, the smoother and better it is running. Mechanical noise can never be a good thing! Think about it... if you have piston slap, rocker arm noise, lifter tapping, cam chain noise whatever and it gets quieter with a certain oil, that oil is protecting better, cushioning the part and dampening the sound.

Noise is the sole reason I won't use Mobil 1...

That of course is only conjecture as I've used Mobil 1 products almost exclusively in all my cars since new. I have neither excessive wear nor abnormal UOAs when I've done them, and everything is still running fine at their advanced miles. So my conclusion is that if this "excessive noise" which I personally haven't experienced actually exists, it means nothing.
 
I don't like noisy engines, it ruins the experience; though Sometimes quieter is MORE powerful sometime not. Ive run overly viscous oil that made an engine VERY quiet but it revved slowly and ruined the driving experience.

Most noise problem i've had in the past decade have gone to filter design or viscosity out of range LOW (and were immediately corrected by substituting the offending part or material.
 
In order to answer that question you would need an engine with somewhere around 70k so the wear numbers are stabilized and to do 2 uoa's on two equal runs on either oil (maybe a clean oil flush before both runs), multiplied by a control group of around 10 or better to see trends. Anything else on either side is just a shot in the dark. We have been trying to come up with answers on this for over 5 years in hemi forums, and we have also been trying to see trends just 5w20 versus 5w30 and wear. The fact is after 5 years and some people giving it a yeomens try, the only thing we have been able to ascertain are some oils will quiet engines more then others, as in zero doubt on that. However, being able to discern anything else meaningful has been elusive. I find it very interesting people throw in the information that it makes zero difference as a matter of fact. I would like to see proof before ever saying that. In fact if anything, I believe the opposite, but I'm not willing to commit to that w/o proof. The fact is many manufacturers are going up in weight because of widespread damage of trying to go "thin". FCA eco diesel is a perfect example, why would they go up in weight if it doesn't matter? So back to the point, do some oils the same weight protect better and would a sign of that be engine noise? It is at least possible.
 
I have a 94 Ford Ranger w 4.0 OHV engine that is known for valvetrain noise. I have used lots of different oils and weights of oils to help with noise. I’ve tried lots of x-30 and some 10w-40 in dino and synth. Even added some Shaffers Moly EP. It calls for 5-30. I am now running Amsoil 0-20 SS in it and it is quieter now than ever go figure.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
IMO as a long time mechanic any additional noise is no good! The quieter an engine is, the smoother and better it is running. Mechanical noise can never be a good thing! Think about it... if you have piston slap, rocker arm noise, lifter tapping, cam chain noise whatever and it gets quieter with a certain oil, that oil is protecting better, cushioning the part and dampening the sound.

Noise is the sole reason I won't use Mobil 1...

That of course is only conjecture as I've used Mobil 1 products almost exclusively in all my cars since new. I have neither excessive wear nor abnormal UOAs when I've done them, and everything is still running fine at their advanced miles. So my conclusion is that if this "excessive noise" which I personally haven't experienced actually exists, it means nothing.


Ditto. … no noise in 3 decades and not one technical theory offered how lubricants with the same properties produced noise …
And when I tested PUP louder than M1 … did not change my opinion of that oil …
So what do they call the SAE noise test … want to look up that database
 
Remember though, the question isn't whether some oils make more noise than others. It is whether that noise is detrimental and indicates diminished "wear protection."
 
Originally Posted By: dogememe
So, I made a thread yesterday about Motorcraft oil being noisy in my 2.5L Escape and how VAS/SynPower made it noticeably quieter. What I didn't mention is that whatever bulk oil came in my Vic was quieter while after putting in the same oil as the Escape (VAS/SynPower) it's a tad noisier. I was planning to standardize my oil across all three vehicles but I haven't changed the oil in the Suburban yet since I pretty much don't drive it, though I'm tempted to because I'd be curious if the VAS/SynPower makes any difference in noise in that one compared to the Chevron Supreme that's in there now. I just want to minimize how much oil I have on hand and I picked VAS/SynPower because it's name brand, quality, and available for about $22 on Walmart or Amazon and always in stock.

TL;DR: What really I want to know is if less engine noise = better wear protection, or just that different oils have different properties that change the noise.


Speculation without data. Do a couple of UOAs with each oil and see if there is a difference in wear metals.
 
The sole reason why I use Royal Purple HPS in my cars is because it runs the quietest and smoothest. Plus it really improves my driving experience as I put quietness at the forefront and the reason why I drive the RLX.
 
Fact is that some oils are noisier than others...
Fact is that some oils provide better wear protection than others.

The Engineer in me investigates abnormal noise in my workplace as part of troubleshooting. It often indicates the presence of a PROBLEM.

I would never say that "noisy" oils produce more wear, and have never seen a single data point to that effect.
 
Originally Posted By: BAJA_05
To the OP -- if you like quiet -- do an oil change with QSUD. Still cheaper then VSP.


No thanks, I don't like SOPUS oils and I'm not about to change that. I'm not trying to discuss different brands of oil - I'm trying to understand if NOISE and WEAR have any correlation.

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Remember though, the question isn't whether some oils make more noise than others. It is whether that noise is detrimental and indicates diminished "wear protection."


Thank you, this is exactly what I'm trying to discuss.

Originally Posted By: JLTD


Speculation without data. Do a couple of UOAs with each oil and see if there is a difference in wear metals.


All it would show is two different brands of oil cause different wear numbers, what we don't know if it has any correlation to noise. It would require tons of data for me to figure it out on my own which is why I posted here.
 
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Originally Posted By: Shannow


I would never say that "noisy" oils produce more wear, and have never seen a single data point to that effect.


What specific testing brought you to that conclusion?
 
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: dogememe
So, I made a thread yesterday about Motorcraft oil being noisy in my 2.5L Escape and how VAS/SynPower made it noticeably quieter. What I didn't mention is that whatever bulk oil came in my Vic was quieter while after putting in the same oil as the Escape (VAS/SynPower) it's a tad noisier. I was planning to standardize my oil across all three vehicles but I haven't changed the oil in the Suburban yet since I pretty much don't drive it, though I'm tempted to because I'd be curious if the VAS/SynPower makes any difference in noise in that one compared to the Chevron Supreme that's in there now. I just want to minimize how much oil I have on hand and I picked VAS/SynPower because it's name brand, quality, and available for about $22 on Walmart or Amazon and always in stock.

TL;DR: What really I want to know is if less engine noise = better wear protection, or just that different oils have different properties that change the noise.


Speculation without data. Do a couple of UOAs with each oil and see if there is a difference in wear metals.


Which still isn't data. UOA's aren't designed, or intended, to allow the contrast of wear performance between lubricants based on the minute PPM variances observed.
 
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Originally Posted By: Shannow


I would never say that "noisy" oils produce more wear, and have never seen a single data point to that effect.


What specific testing brought you to that conclusion?





google...

Oh, and it's on record here on BITOG that when I put M1 0W40 in my 4runner (pre the noisy M1 meme, it wsa only me and sprintman who had noticed), and it sounded like a steel bucket full of ball bearings.
 
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