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need help with a scan tool #4743457
04/30/18 02:01 PM
04/30/18 02:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
Chester11 Offline OP
Chester11  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
Hi folks:

I'm looking for a scantool that will pull fuel trim data. I'm running down a vacuum leak, and want to make sure it really IS a vacuum leak.

Here is what I'm looking at.

https://www.harborfreight.com/ZR8-OBD2-Code-Reader-with-Live-Data-63809.html

Thanks!

Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11] #4743464
04/30/18 02:08 PM
04/30/18 02:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 414
Massachusetts
VeryNoisyPoet Offline
VeryNoisyPoet  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 414
Massachusetts
That one claims live data and live data graphing. I don't have that exact model, but a similar one from HF with data and graphing. Very handy for looking at how the engine responds to various conditions.

It may also be possible that you are getting "pirate air", or air that slips in through a leak upstream of the throttle plate but downstream from the filter and MAF. This may not cause the same drivability issues as a vacuum leak, but will upset fuel trims and fuel economy.

What symptoms are you seeing? High idle? Rough running that improves with more throttle?


1998 V70 GLT / 194k miles [10w-30 Valvoline Syn w/ Maxlife Tech + Mann W917 filter]

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."
Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11] #4743473
04/30/18 02:16 PM
04/30/18 02:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 585
DFW
JustN89 Offline
JustN89  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 585
DFW
You'd have to check their website's FAQ to see if it is offered for your vehicle, but if Live Data is offered for your application, the Bluedriver Scanner is an awesome tool to have. It's 10 dollars more, but offers bluetooth that allows you to pull up the information on your phone.

Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4743503
04/30/18 02:36 PM
04/30/18 02:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
Chester11 Offline OP
Chester11  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
It's a rough idle when in gear and hot. (Most noticeable at a stoplight). It improves with throttle.

In neutral or park, rpm increases a bit and the feeling goes away.

If you are interested, here is what I have done:

- replaced 2/3 motor mounts with no change. (The third mount looks ok)
- cleaned the throttle body
- replaced valve cover gasket
- also sprayed around lines / gaskets with water and carb cleaner but don't hear an idle change.

I'm thinking it could be a master cylinder / vacuum pump. (bad master cylinder would explain why the vibration is so bad at a light with the brake on - my theory anyway, as braking has seemed to deteriorate in the last few years). But before I go replacing parts, I want to see the fuel trims.

Thanks.

Last edited by Chester11; 04/30/18 02:44 PM.
Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11] #4743519
04/30/18 02:49 PM
04/30/18 02:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,835
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,835
Upstate NY
How about a Bluetooth one for phone and Torque?


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11] #4743538
04/30/18 03:03 PM
04/30/18 03:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,567
Phoenix, Arizona - USA
SirTanon Offline
SirTanon  Offline
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,567
Phoenix, Arizona - USA
What Donald said.

I have an old Samsung Galaxy S3 phone that I wiped and installed Torque Pro on. Torque Pro costs $4.99, and will read most Bluetooth OBD-II adapters fine.

I bought an inexpensive adapter on Amazon for about $13. This Adapter - VeePeak Bluetooth OBD-II adapter

I also got a magnetic-mount vent-clip phone holder for about $8. Holds the phone amazingly well.

The setup as a whole works great. Here's a shot of it mounted:



I typically leave it on this screen to get a second set of info while I drive, but I have other screens setup to show Long Term and Short Term Fuel Trim, O2 sensors (pre and post), Spark advance timing, Vacuum sensor, EGR %, etc..


2010 Ford Fusion SE - 2.5 liter/6F35 Trans - 263,000mi
2014 Nissan Altima SL - 2.5 liter/CVT - 58,000mi
Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: SirTanon] #4743742
04/30/18 07:05 PM
04/30/18 07:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
Chester11 Offline OP
Chester11  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
wow - cool. only problem is that I don't have Android. I will have to look at the apple versions....

thanks - that is much cheaper than my pick.

Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11] #4744197
05/01/18 07:11 AM
05/01/18 07:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,766
Texas
GMBoy Offline
GMBoy  Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,766
Texas
That's a nice unit for the money. Made by Innova who makes some good products.

Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11] #4744373
05/01/18 11:10 AM
05/01/18 11:10 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,489
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
zzyzzx Offline
zzyzzx  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,489
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
I would be using a MityVac to check for vacuum leaks.

Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: zzyzzx] #4744386
05/01/18 11:21 AM
05/01/18 11:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
Chester11 Offline OP
Chester11  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
I would be using a MityVac to check for vacuum leaks.


at the brake booster you mean?

Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11] #4744887
05/01/18 07:51 PM
05/01/18 07:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,303
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,303
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Chester11
It's a rough idle when in gear and hot. (Most noticeable at a stoplight). It improves with throttle.

In neutral or park, rpm increases a bit and the feeling goes away.

If you are interested, here is what I have done:

- replaced 2/3 motor mounts with no change. (The third mount looks ok)
- cleaned the throttle body
- replaced valve cover gasket
- also sprayed around lines / gaskets with water and carb cleaner but don't hear an idle change.

I'm thinking it could be a master cylinder / vacuum pump. (bad master cylinder would explain why the vibration is so bad at a light with the brake on - my theory anyway, as braking has seemed to deteriorate in the last few years). But before I go replacing parts, I want to see the fuel trims.

Thanks.



I'm all for you buying a scan tool & learning how to use it! But.....A good diagnostic tech can figure out your issue very quickly. Case in point about the master cylinder causing driveability concerns....Probably not your issue unless your losing brake fluid? You can usually HEAR a ruptured brake booster diaphragm.

Make/Model of the vehicle?


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: clinebarger] #4745102
05/01/18 11:42 PM
05/01/18 11:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
Chester11 Offline OP
Chester11  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
Originally Posted By: clinebarger


I'm all for you buying a scan tool & learning how to use it! But.....A good diagnostic tech can figure out your issue very quickly. Case in point about the master cylinder causing driveability concerns....Probably not your issue unless your losing brake fluid? You can usually HEAR a ruptured brake booster diaphragm.

Make/Model of the vehicle?


2007 Mazda 6i (2.3).

Yep - understand, it's an older car that I kinda like messing with. No leaks, but I did find out that the in line check valve seems slightly restricted (it sounds a bit like a trumpet and not an easy flow). It appears that I have to replace the entire hose, which is $94! Mazda parts are somewhat challenging to find, but that is crazy. I also posted on a Mazda specific forum to see if they had ideas. I would hate to make a junkyard run for a hose.

Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11] #4745835
05/02/18 06:20 PM
05/02/18 06:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,303
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,303
Fort Worth, Texas
The check valve just needs to flow one way & check the other way, The vacuum signal the engine makes is very strong so what seems like a restriction to you isn't.....Engine vacuum will easily overcome the check valve spring pressure.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: clinebarger] #4745873
05/02/18 06:49 PM
05/02/18 06:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
Chester11 Offline OP
Chester11  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 156
PA
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
The check valve just needs to flow one way & check the other way, The vacuum signal the engine makes is very strong so what seems like a restriction to you isn't.....Engine vacuum will easily overcome the check valve spring pressure.



that's what I was thinking - but thanks for confirming. I'm running out of places to look - so it might be time to just deal with it. what has me stumped is the RPM drop that occurs when you press and hold the brake for about 5 / 7 seconds. it feels almost like a downshift, but happens at a dead stop also.

Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11] #4745930
05/02/18 07:38 PM
05/02/18 07:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,303
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,303
Fort Worth, Texas
Remove the booster hose from the intake manifold, plug the port & retest....Be careful as you will NOT have brake assist!!

If your running at speed....Applying the brakes will unlock the torque converter.
Trying idling at a stop light with the parking brake instead of the service brakes & see if it improves.

A scan tool would help you see if the actual idle speed is lower than the target idle speed. I would also take a closer look at the old mount that looks good!
Take a floor jack with a thick piece of rubber & take the weight off that mount & see if the vibrations go away.

Mounts can visually appear OK but be collapsed internally, Does the engine torque on this mount in drive??

Last edited by clinebarger; 05/02/18 07:38 PM.

2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
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