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#4743457 - 04/30/18 02:01 PM need help with a scan tool
Chester11 Offline


Registered: 04/13/17
Posts: 143
Loc: PA
Hi folks:

I'm looking for a scantool that will pull fuel trim data. I'm running down a vacuum leak, and want to make sure it really IS a vacuum leak.

Here is what I'm looking at.

https://www.harborfreight.com/ZR8-OBD2-Code-Reader-with-Live-Data-63809.html

Thanks!

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#4743464 - 04/30/18 02:08 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11]
VeryNoisyPoet Offline


Registered: 12/16/17
Posts: 350
Loc: Massachusetts
That one claims live data and live data graphing. I don't have that exact model, but a similar one from HF with data and graphing. Very handy for looking at how the engine responds to various conditions.

It may also be possible that you are getting "pirate air", or air that slips in through a leak upstream of the throttle plate but downstream from the filter and MAF. This may not cause the same drivability issues as a vacuum leak, but will upset fuel trims and fuel economy.

What symptoms are you seeing? High idle? Rough running that improves with more throttle?
_________________________
1998 V70 GLT / 192k miles [10w-30 Valvoline Syn w/ Maxlife Tech + Mann W917 filter]

"Use yah blinkah!"

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#4743473 - 04/30/18 02:16 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11]
JustN89 Offline


Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 515
Loc: DFW
You'd have to check their website's FAQ to see if it is offered for your vehicle, but if Live Data is offered for your application, the Bluedriver Scanner is an awesome tool to have. It's 10 dollars more, but offers bluetooth that allows you to pull up the information on your phone.

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#4743503 - 04/30/18 02:36 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: VeryNoisyPoet]
Chester11 Offline


Registered: 04/13/17
Posts: 143
Loc: PA
It's a rough idle when in gear and hot. (Most noticeable at a stoplight). It improves with throttle.

In neutral or park, rpm increases a bit and the feeling goes away.

If you are interested, here is what I have done:

- replaced 2/3 motor mounts with no change. (The third mount looks ok)
- cleaned the throttle body
- replaced valve cover gasket
- also sprayed around lines / gaskets with water and carb cleaner but don't hear an idle change.

I'm thinking it could be a master cylinder / vacuum pump. (bad master cylinder would explain why the vibration is so bad at a light with the brake on - my theory anyway, as braking has seemed to deteriorate in the last few years). But before I go replacing parts, I want to see the fuel trims.

Thanks.


Edited by Chester11 (04/30/18 02:44 PM)

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#4743519 - 04/30/18 02:49 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 20674
Loc: Upstate NY
How about a Bluetooth one for phone and Torque?
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)

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#4743538 - 04/30/18 03:03 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11]
SirTanon Offline


Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 2346
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona - USA
What Donald said.

I have an old Samsung Galaxy S3 phone that I wiped and installed Torque Pro on. Torque Pro costs $4.99, and will read most Bluetooth OBD-II adapters fine.

I bought an inexpensive adapter on Amazon for about $13. This Adapter - VeePeak Bluetooth OBD-II adapter

I also got a magnetic-mount vent-clip phone holder for about $8. Holds the phone amazingly well.

The setup as a whole works great. Here's a shot of it mounted:



I typically leave it on this screen to get a second set of info while I drive, but I have other screens setup to show Long Term and Short Term Fuel Trim, O2 sensors (pre and post), Spark advance timing, Vacuum sensor, EGR %, etc..
_________________________
2010 Ford Fusion SE - 2.5 liter/6F35 Trans - 260,000mi
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#4743742 - 04/30/18 07:05 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: SirTanon]
Chester11 Offline


Registered: 04/13/17
Posts: 143
Loc: PA
wow - cool. only problem is that I don't have Android. I will have to look at the apple versions....

thanks - that is much cheaper than my pick.

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#4744197 - 05/01/18 07:11 AM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11]
GMBoy Offline


Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 7726
Loc: Texas
That's a nice unit for the money. Made by Innova who makes some good products.

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#4744373 - 05/01/18 11:10 AM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11]
zzyzzx Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 4430
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
I would be using a MityVac to check for vacuum leaks.

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#4744386 - 05/01/18 11:21 AM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: zzyzzx]
Chester11 Offline


Registered: 04/13/17
Posts: 143
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
I would be using a MityVac to check for vacuum leaks.


at the brake booster you mean?

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#4744887 - 05/01/18 07:51 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11]
clinebarger Offline


Registered: 12/19/13
Posts: 2081
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Chester11
It's a rough idle when in gear and hot. (Most noticeable at a stoplight). It improves with throttle.

In neutral or park, rpm increases a bit and the feeling goes away.

If you are interested, here is what I have done:

- replaced 2/3 motor mounts with no change. (The third mount looks ok)
- cleaned the throttle body
- replaced valve cover gasket
- also sprayed around lines / gaskets with water and carb cleaner but don't hear an idle change.

I'm thinking it could be a master cylinder / vacuum pump. (bad master cylinder would explain why the vibration is so bad at a light with the brake on - my theory anyway, as braking has seemed to deteriorate in the last few years). But before I go replacing parts, I want to see the fuel trims.

Thanks.



I'm all for you buying a scan tool & learning how to use it! But.....A good diagnostic tech can figure out your issue very quickly. Case in point about the master cylinder causing driveability concerns....Probably not your issue unless your losing brake fluid? You can usually HEAR a ruptured brake booster diaphragm.

Make/Model of the vehicle?
_________________________
2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto

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#4745102 - 05/01/18 11:42 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: clinebarger]
Chester11 Offline


Registered: 04/13/17
Posts: 143
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: clinebarger


I'm all for you buying a scan tool & learning how to use it! But.....A good diagnostic tech can figure out your issue very quickly. Case in point about the master cylinder causing driveability concerns....Probably not your issue unless your losing brake fluid? You can usually HEAR a ruptured brake booster diaphragm.

Make/Model of the vehicle?


2007 Mazda 6i (2.3).

Yep - understand, it's an older car that I kinda like messing with. No leaks, but I did find out that the in line check valve seems slightly restricted (it sounds a bit like a trumpet and not an easy flow). It appears that I have to replace the entire hose, which is $94! Mazda parts are somewhat challenging to find, but that is crazy. I also posted on a Mazda specific forum to see if they had ideas. I would hate to make a junkyard run for a hose.

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#4745835 - 05/02/18 06:20 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11]
clinebarger Offline


Registered: 12/19/13
Posts: 2081
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
The check valve just needs to flow one way & check the other way, The vacuum signal the engine makes is very strong so what seems like a restriction to you isn't.....Engine vacuum will easily overcome the check valve spring pressure.
_________________________
2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto

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#4745873 - 05/02/18 06:49 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: clinebarger]
Chester11 Offline


Registered: 04/13/17
Posts: 143
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
The check valve just needs to flow one way & check the other way, The vacuum signal the engine makes is very strong so what seems like a restriction to you isn't.....Engine vacuum will easily overcome the check valve spring pressure.



that's what I was thinking - but thanks for confirming. I'm running out of places to look - so it might be time to just deal with it. what has me stumped is the RPM drop that occurs when you press and hold the brake for about 5 / 7 seconds. it feels almost like a downshift, but happens at a dead stop also.

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#4745930 - 05/02/18 07:38 PM Re: need help with a scan tool [Re: Chester11]
clinebarger Offline


Registered: 12/19/13
Posts: 2081
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Remove the booster hose from the intake manifold, plug the port & retest....Be careful as you will NOT have brake assist!!

If your running at speed....Applying the brakes will unlock the torque converter.
Trying idling at a stop light with the parking brake instead of the service brakes & see if it improves.

A scan tool would help you see if the actual idle speed is lower than the target idle speed. I would also take a closer look at the old mount that looks good!
Take a floor jack with a thick piece of rubber & take the weight off that mount & see if the vibrations go away.

Mounts can visually appear OK but be collapsed internally, Does the engine torque on this mount in drive??


Edited by clinebarger (05/02/18 07:38 PM)
_________________________
2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto

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