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#4743431 - 04/30/18 01:29 PM Shearing = shift quality degradation... ?
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4955
Loc: Great White North.. eh
I have read almost every thread discuss how shift quality deteriorates over the course of an OCI. Is this directly caused by the level of shearing an oil experiences? Or is there something else at play?
_________________________
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Valvoline 20w50, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30

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#4743485 - 04/30/18 02:24 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: webfors]
Propflux01 Offline


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 3428
Loc: Arkansastan
Yes, a lot of it is. Gears shear the [censored] out of oil, and most motorcycles share the sump.
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A 55 Gallon Drum And A Shovel Can Solve A lot of Life's Little "Problems"

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#4743515 - 04/30/18 02:48 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: webfors]
racin4ds Offline


Registered: 05/07/10
Posts: 1044
Loc: Ocala, Florida
This has been the case for many years with shared sump bikes/quads. I've dealt with it for a long time in just about every make and model. My current '11 KingQuad 400 shears oil fast and gets very notchy within 500miles. My 08 Kawasaki Ninja 650 does also when using the recommended 10W40 lube. I even went with some Castrol 10W40 full syn this time and it lasted longer but still gets very notchy after 1000 miles or so.
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Just say NO to thin oils and M1!
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#4743553 - 04/30/18 03:23 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: webfors]
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4955
Loc: Great White North.. eh
In which case your viscosity choice should compensate for 20-30% shearing in a shared sump if you want to maintain decent shift quality for the majority of the OCI.

Or... use an oil that doesn't shear... which is rare.
_________________________
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Valvoline 20w50, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30

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#4743654 - 04/30/18 05:20 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: webfors]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4573
Loc: Down Under
Yes as oil ages in a shared sump motorcycles the polymer VII are sheared or cut by the mechanical action of the gears. This causes the viscosity to drop and the gear change to go bad. Notchy at first, but soon you end up missing gear changes or requiring a lot of boot to get it into gear.

I tend to run thicker oils so they shear into grade after 1000 miles, rather than out of grade.
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#4743659 - 04/30/18 05:26 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: webfors]
Joshua_Skinner Offline


Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 754
Loc: Portland, Oregon
My 1998 Honda VFR 800 shifts fine throughout the 5k mi OCI. I've been using Mobil 1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck that I got on clearance at Auto Zone. Once that's gone I'll use the Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 I got on clearance at WalMart.
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2015 Nissan Frontier S King Cab, 2.5L, 5MT
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#4743671 - 04/30/18 05:37 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: SR5]
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4955
Loc: Great White North.. eh
Originally Posted By: SR5
Yes as oil ages in a shared sump motorcycles the polymer VII are sheared or cut by the mechanical action of the gears. This causes the viscosity to drop and the gear change to go bad. Notchy at first, but soon you end up missing gear changes or requiring a lot of boot to get it into gear.

I tend to run thicker oils so they shear into grade after 1000 miles, rather than out of grade.


This is what I'm thinking with the recent purchase of Valvoline 20w50.
_________________________
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Valvoline 20w50, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30

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#4743672 - 04/30/18 05:38 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: Joshua_Skinner]
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4955
Loc: Great White North.. eh
Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
My 1998 Honda VFR 800 shifts fine throughout the 5k mi OCI. I've been using Mobil 1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck that I got on clearance at Auto Zone. Once that's gone I'll use the Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 I got on clearance at WalMart.


Your bike doesn't require Jaso spec oil?
_________________________
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Valvoline 20w50, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30

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#4743744 - 04/30/18 07:06 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: webfors]
benjy Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 925
Loc: pa
any type of oil using a smaller spread will use less VII that shear, an oils first # besides the cold flow is what base oil is used before adding VII so a 15-40 is inherently better than 10-40's + the quality of the VI's are many. cheap oil cheap polymers aka VII. of course you must consider riding temps as well!!! true synthesised synthetics are far better requiring very little VII + generally last longer if you don't mind paying $10+ a quart, of course there are other benefits as well. those that DIY can easily change their oil sooner + be better protected + have better shifting. rotella T 15-40 a cheaper conventional diesel oil is quite popular for that reason !!!

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#4743792 - 04/30/18 07:45 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: webfors]
blupupher Offline


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 4526
Loc: Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
My 1998 Honda VFR 800 shifts fine throughout the 5k mi OCI. I've been using Mobil 1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck that I got on clearance at Auto Zone. Once that's gone I'll use the Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 I got on clearance at WalMart.


Your bike doesn't require Jaso spec oil?

Most bikes run fine with diesel oil. No "Energy Conserving" on diesel oil so no clutch issues.

I run Peak 15w-40 syn blend diesel oil in my bike, and have used Supertech 15w-40 as well.
I am just starting to notice some notchiness in shifting and difficulty finding neutral @ 2200 miles on the oil, so will be changing it soon.
_________________________
1994 Honda VT1100C: Peak 15w-40/TG/2500 mile OCI
2002 Ford F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard Syn/1yr OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k OCI


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#4743817 - 04/30/18 08:01 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: webfors]
Panos Offline


Registered: 12/08/16
Posts: 67
Loc: Greece
No shifting degradation ever experienced in both of my bikes (see my signature) using motul oil only.uoa showed pretty decent sharing also in both of them. Never felt any difference during the interval or after changing the oil (which I did about 15 times in 85.000km total)
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Ford fiesta 1.6 mk6 Motul specific 913D/Motul Gear 300
Kawasaki ninja 250r Motul 5100 10w40
Honda cbr600f Pc41 Motul 7100 10w30

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#4743847 - 04/30/18 08:19 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: Panos]
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4955
Loc: Great White North.. eh
Originally Posted By: Panos
No shifting degradation ever experienced in both of my bikes (see my signature) using motul oil only.uoa showed pretty decent sharing also in both of them. Never felt any difference during the interval or after changing the oil (which I did about 15 times in 85.000km total)


So that's interesting.. because your UOA showed significant shearing, yet you noticed no difference in shifting quality..
_________________________
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Valvoline 20w50, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30

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#4743928 - 04/30/18 09:13 PM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: webfors]
blupupher Offline


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 4526
Loc: Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: Panos
No shifting degradation ever experienced in both of my bikes (see my signature) using motul oil only.uoa showed pretty decent sharing also in both of them. Never felt any difference during the interval or after changing the oil (which I did about 15 times in 85.000km total)


So that's interesting.. because your UOA showed significant shearing, yet you noticed no difference in shifting quality..

Some bikes are not as susceptible to shifting problems from shearing as other bikes.
_________________________
1994 Honda VT1100C: Peak 15w-40/TG/2500 mile OCI
2002 Ford F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard Syn/1yr OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k OCI


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#4744063 - 05/01/18 01:07 AM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: webfors]
Panos Offline


Registered: 12/08/16
Posts: 67
Loc: Greece
That's also my conclusion after reading and hearing so many reporting shifting quality difference. At the same time , very few people I know or post here seem to use the motul brand.
_________________________
Ford fiesta 1.6 mk6 Motul specific 913D/Motul Gear 300
Kawasaki ninja 250r Motul 5100 10w40
Honda cbr600f Pc41 Motul 7100 10w30

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#4744082 - 05/01/18 02:09 AM Re: Shearing = shift quality degradation... ? [Re: Panos]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 2806
Loc: The Canyons
Originally Posted By: Panos
That's also my conclusion after reading and hearing so many reporting shifting quality difference. At the same time , very few people I know or post here seem to use the motul brand.


I've tried most brands out there over the years, and Motul 300V 4T is my favorite. The bikes run great, and shift perfectly for the entire OCI. I've tried numerous HDEO's, and the shifting always quickly degrades in my bikes.

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