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#4742313 - 04/29/18 12:07 PM Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob?
GemStater Offline


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 289
Loc: Pacific NW USA
I already used up my Motor Trend on demand trial so I haven't seen the final results but this looks interesting...

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#4742325 - 04/29/18 12:14 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 32882
Loc: ME
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.

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#4742327 - 04/29/18 12:17 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: eljefino]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4803
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.


And draining half of your blood supply can make you lose weight.

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#4742339 - 04/29/18 12:30 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
JohnnyJohnson Online   content


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3008
Loc: Wet side WA
About the same amount as blowing your nose!
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#4742365 - 04/29/18 12:53 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: eljefino]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6189
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.


This has been common knowledge in engines for years.

Many racers in "stock" (very strict rules) classes will only run 3 quarts in a 5-qt V8 engine oil pan.
In a 12 second drag race, you only need oil pressure for the 12 seconds of run time. If 2 quarts would do the trick, they would do it.

"Crankcase windage" can kill 10HP easily - at rated RPM.

Normal "grocery getter commuter cars" typically will never see a difference in anything if run a whole quart low.

Yes, I am serious!
Did you ever think the new Nissans with only a 3 quart capacity might have other reasons for their decision ?!?!!? Everyone is trying to get better MPG across the fleet.

EDIT: OK, I just watched the video. That was no surprise at all.
If they keep pulling oil out, HP has to go higher. It ALWAYS does!


Edited by Linctex (04/29/18 12:58 PM)
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#4742425 - 04/29/18 02:14 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 2056
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
The difference does not show up until 4,000 rpm, so don’t bother unless you like operating there.

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#4742433 - 04/29/18 02:23 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
E365 Online   content


Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 476
Loc: USA
I wanted them to put 0w-16 in there and see if power was gained! laugh
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#4742518 - 04/29/18 03:53 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
rideahorse Offline


Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 95
Loc: Charles City, Iowa
Every thing runs the best right before it blows up.

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#4742667 - 04/29/18 06:35 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: eljefino]
CR94 Online   content


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1265
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.
I don't know about that "fact," but I'm careful not to refill mine with more than the specified volume---which incidentally does not bring the level all the way to "the top pip of the stick," only about 90% of the way up from the lower pip.
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#4742678 - 04/29/18 06:41 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4471
Loc: Taiwan
How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? - Er, none. Trick question? Or maybe stupid question?

How much horsepower does your oil amount rob? - Er, none. unless the oil level is excessive?

How much horsepower does an excessive oil level rob? - Er, quite a lot, because the crankshaft hits it.

This is not news.

The assumption in the above discussion that Less=More seems unlikely to be generally valid. I;d expect there to be a cutoff below which you wouldn't gain much if any horsepower but might loose your engine

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#4742689 - 04/29/18 06:53 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
CT8 Online   content


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11483
Loc: Idaho
The after market oil pan must be poor quality. Too much drama for a mans program.
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#4742742 - 04/29/18 07:51 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5691
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
With a well designed windage tray, there should be little or no difference in high to low on the dip stick.

If you really want to save HP at RPM, you go dry sump and vacuum pump. You pay something for the pumping losses, but not as much smile
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#4743044 - 04/30/18 07:44 AM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: Linctex]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 10315
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.


This has been common knowledge in engines for years.

Many racers in "stock" (very strict rules) classes will only run 3 quarts in a 5-qt V8 engine oil pan.
In a 12 second drag race, you only need oil pressure for the 12 seconds of run time. If 2 quarts would do the trick, they would do it.

"Crankcase windage" can kill 10HP easily - at rated RPM.

Normal "grocery getter commuter cars" typically will never see a difference in anything if run a whole quart low.

Yes, I am serious!
Did you ever think the new Nissans with only a 3 quart capacity might have other reasons for their decision ?!?!!? Everyone is trying to get better MPG across the fleet.

EDIT: OK, I just watched the video. That was no surprise at all.
If they keep pulling oil out, HP has to go higher. It ALWAYS does!


I don't understand. The oil is still pumping regardless of the volume in the sump. I can see the 3 quarts warming up faster, but I would assume the engines would already be hot.

Also, some cars fitted for drag racing (obviously not stock) have over sized sumps.
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#4743088 - 04/30/18 08:32 AM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4471
Loc: Taiwan
Thinking about it a bit more, I think I not sure exactly what was going on here either.

I'd always assumed that the issue with over-filling was the crank actually hitting the oil surface, but I guess the term "windage" implies its actually rotating air entrained by the cranks motion and blowing oil off the surface.

If that's the case the horsepower loss may be partly due to air resistance, and maybe there won't be a sharp cutoff like there would be if hitting an oil surface.

I'd also assumed the dry-sump thing was to avoid oil starvation due to the oil going sideways due to lateral G's, and pumping losses from the piston underside pushing air around. Hadn't thought of air resistance to the cranks riotation.

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#4743131 - 04/30/18 09:01 AM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4803
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Another thing is there were V-8 engines, (Oldsmobile and Buick among them), that had issues with the oil pump starving out because the oil couldn't drain back into the oil pan fast enough. Forcing the oil pump to basically to suck wind instead of oil. This led to bearing failure as oil pressure would fall to zero if the engine were run for any length of time at high RPM's. (Above 4,500 RPM). Like in jet boat applications. There were even kits that could be installed in these engines that would somehow prevent this from happening.

When I lived in Lake Havasu City, my neighbor had a race boat with a 455 Oldsmobile "Rocket" V-8 in it. He told me about this, and showed me the kit he installed in the engine to prevent it. He warned me if I was ever in the market for this type of boat, (Oldsmobile / Buick V-8 powered), and it did not have this kit installed, to run, not walk away from it. Running an engine of this type low on oil would make an already bad condition even worse. Deliberately running any engine with less than the rated oil capacity just seems foolish.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0302phr-oldsmobile-455ci-engine-build/

"The narrow passages from the stock heads do not allow oil in the valvetrain to return to the pan in an efficient manner. This condition can lead to instant death for a 455 that is run wide open for extended periods of time."

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