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Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? #4742313
04/29/18 12:07 PM
04/29/18 12:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 297
Pacific NW USA
GemStater Offline OP
GemStater  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 297
Pacific NW USA
I already used up my Motor Trend on demand trial so I haven't seen the final results but this looks interesting...



06 Honda Accord EX-L 3.0L Mobil 0W-20 AFE | Fram XG7313
02 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L - PP 5W-30 | Fram Ultra XG8A
69 Plymouth Road Runner 383 - Restoration
Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater] #4742325
04/29/18 12:14 PM
04/29/18 12:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,252
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,252
ME
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.

Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: eljefino] #4742327
04/29/18 12:17 PM
04/29/18 12:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.


And draining half of your blood supply can make you lose weight.

Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater] #4742339
04/29/18 12:30 PM
04/29/18 12:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,335
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,335
Wet side WA
About the same amount as blowing your nose!


2004 Corolla 125400
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74277
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18
Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: eljefino] #4742365
04/29/18 12:53 PM
04/29/18 12:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,429
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,429
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.


This has been common knowledge in engines for years.

Many racers in "stock" (very strict rules) classes will only run 3 quarts in a 5-qt V8 engine oil pan.
In a 12 second drag race, you only need oil pressure for the 12 seconds of run time. If 2 quarts would do the trick, they would do it.

"Crankcase windage" can kill 10HP easily - at rated RPM.

Normal "grocery getter commuter cars" typically will never see a difference in anything if run a whole quart low.

Yes, I am serious!
Did you ever think the new Nissans with only a 3 quart capacity might have other reasons for their decision ?!?!!? Everyone is trying to get better MPG across the fleet.

EDIT: OK, I just watched the video. That was no surprise at all.
If they keep pulling oil out, HP has to go higher. It ALWAYS does!

Last edited by Linctex; 04/29/18 12:58 PM.

"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater] #4742425
04/29/18 02:14 PM
04/29/18 02:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,501
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline
Snagglefoot  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,501
SE British Columbia, Canada
The difference does not show up until 4,000 rpm, so dont bother unless you like operating there.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater] #4742433
04/29/18 02:23 PM
04/29/18 02:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 504
USA
E365 Offline
E365  Offline
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 504
USA
I wanted them to put 0w-16 in there and see if power was gained! laugh


Whatevers on sale...
Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater] #4742518
04/29/18 03:53 PM
04/29/18 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 97
Charles City, Iowa
rideahorse Offline
rideahorse  Offline
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 97
Charles City, Iowa
Every thing runs the best right before it blows up.

Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: eljefino] #4742667
04/29/18 06:35 PM
04/29/18 06:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,470
Western S.C. since 1996
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,470
Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.
I don't know about that "fact," but I'm careful not to refill mine with more than the specified volume---which incidentally does not bring the level all the way to "the top pip of the stick," only about 90% of the way up from the lower pip.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 93K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater] #4742678
04/29/18 06:41 PM
04/29/18 06:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,778
Taiwan
Ducked Online content
Ducked  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,778
Taiwan
How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? - Er, none. Trick question? Or maybe stupid question?

How much horsepower does your oil amount rob? - Er, none. unless the oil level is excessive?

How much horsepower does an excessive oil level rob? - Er, quite a lot, because the crankshaft hits it.

This is not news.

The assumption in the above discussion that Less=More seems unlikely to be generally valid. I;d expect there to be a cutoff below which you wouldn't gain much if any horsepower but might loose your engine

Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater] #4742689
04/29/18 06:53 PM
04/29/18 06:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,028
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,028
Idaho
The after market oil pan must be poor quality. Too much drama for a mans program.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater] #4742742
04/29/18 07:51 PM
04/29/18 07:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,951
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,951
Kalifornia Kollective
With a well designed windage tray, there should be little or no difference in high to low on the dip stick.

If you really want to save HP at RPM, you go dry sump and vacuum pump. You pay something for the pumping losses, but not as much smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: Linctex] #4743044
04/30/18 07:44 AM
04/30/18 07:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,531
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,531
Indiana
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.


This has been common knowledge in engines for years.

Many racers in "stock" (very strict rules) classes will only run 3 quarts in a 5-qt V8 engine oil pan.
In a 12 second drag race, you only need oil pressure for the 12 seconds of run time. If 2 quarts would do the trick, they would do it.

"Crankcase windage" can kill 10HP easily - at rated RPM.

Normal "grocery getter commuter cars" typically will never see a difference in anything if run a whole quart low.

Yes, I am serious!
Did you ever think the new Nissans with only a 3 quart capacity might have other reasons for their decision ?!?!!? Everyone is trying to get better MPG across the fleet.

EDIT: OK, I just watched the video. That was no surprise at all.
If they keep pulling oil out, HP has to go higher. It ALWAYS does!


I don't understand. The oil is still pumping regardless of the volume in the sump. I can see the 3 quarts warming up faster, but I would assume the engines would already be hot.

Also, some cars fitted for drag racing (obviously not stock) have over sized sumps.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 200k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 149k Rotella T5 10w30 Supertech ST3980

Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater] #4743088
04/30/18 08:32 AM
04/30/18 08:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,778
Taiwan
Ducked Online content
Ducked  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,778
Taiwan
Thinking about it a bit more, I think I not sure exactly what was going on here either.

I'd always assumed that the issue with over-filling was the crank actually hitting the oil surface, but I guess the term "windage" implies its actually rotating air entrained by the cranks motion and blowing oil off the surface.

If that's the case the horsepower loss may be partly due to air resistance, and maybe there won't be a sharp cutoff like there would be if hitting an oil surface.

I'd also assumed the dry-sump thing was to avoid oil starvation due to the oil going sideways due to lateral G's, and pumping losses from the piston underside pushing air around. Hadn't thought of air resistance to the cranks riotation.

Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater] #4743131
04/30/18 09:01 AM
04/30/18 09:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
Another thing is there were V-8 engines, (Oldsmobile and Buick among them), that had issues with the oil pump starving out because the oil couldn't drain back into the oil pan fast enough. Forcing the oil pump to basically to suck wind instead of oil. This led to bearing failure as oil pressure would fall to zero if the engine were run for any length of time at high RPM's. (Above 4,500 RPM). Like in jet boat applications. There were even kits that could be installed in these engines that would somehow prevent this from happening.

When I lived in Lake Havasu City, my neighbor had a race boat with a 455 Oldsmobile "Rocket" V-8 in it. He told me about this, and showed me the kit he installed in the engine to prevent it. He warned me if I was ever in the market for this type of boat, (Oldsmobile / Buick V-8 powered), and it did not have this kit installed, to run, not walk away from it. Running an engine of this type low on oil would make an already bad condition even worse. Deliberately running any engine with less than the rated oil capacity just seems foolish.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0302phr-oldsmobile-455ci-engine-build/

"The narrow passages from the stock heads do not allow oil in the valvetrain to return to the pan in an efficient manner. This condition can lead to instant death for a 455 that is run wide open for extended periods of time."

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