Recent Topics
Variable speed on MTD self-propel mowers
by DejaVue
05/22/18 01:55 AM
A rotary engine is a beautiful thing.
by OneEyeJack
05/22/18 01:32 AM
Some Basic Brake Fluid Questions...
by Onug
05/21/18 09:18 PM
Alternate 4Runner Oil
by 28gauge
05/21/18 08:54 PM
Any San Antonio Locals?
by JustinH
05/21/18 08:26 PM
the strangest sonata ping resolution.
by JustinH
05/21/18 08:20 PM
Castrol and Pennzoil 0w40 question
by Duntov283Cam
05/21/18 07:28 PM
new heater core while dash is out?
by motor_oil_madman
05/21/18 06:51 PM
Purolator One seal problem?
by RyanY
05/21/18 06:48 PM
Coyo oil filter failure
by WobblyElvis
05/21/18 06:10 PM
Honda OEM 12341-RTA-OOO Valve Cover gasket K24 CR-
by ammolab
05/21/18 05:44 PM
Transmission cooler temps
by spasm3
05/21/18 05:20 PM
Bendix vs Raybestos Pro rotors for 97 Maxima
by zorobabel
05/21/18 04:31 PM
Rental car in Europe and CDW
by mez
05/21/18 04:15 PM
Jay Leno tests the new Corvette ZR1.
by A_Harman
05/21/18 03:52 PM
Bored With NASCAR? Try This
by billt460
05/21/18 03:40 PM
Scion IA tires
by mx5miata
05/21/18 03:30 PM
kids/teens food (presenting) ideas?
by pandus13
05/21/18 03:30 PM
Rental car chipped windshield.
by motor_oil_madman
05/21/18 03:19 PM
w116 300sd Thermostat Housing
by Gito
05/21/18 02:53 PM
Newest Members
PGProduct, dg500, 28gauge, ka9mnx, Amenhotep
65054 Registered Users
Who's Online
20 registered (CleverUserName, ArrestMeRedZ, Isophix, DallasTexas, Duke, 2 invisible), 816 Guests and 38 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65054 Members
67 Forums
283983 Topics
4739561 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#4742313 - 04/29/18 12:07 PM Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob?
GemStater Offline


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 274
Loc: Pacific NW USA
I already used up my Motor Trend on demand trial so I haven't seen the final results but this looks interesting...

_________________________
06 Honda Accord EX-L 3.0L – Mobil 5W-20 | Fram PH7313
02 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L - PP 5W-30 | Fram Ultra XG8A
69 Plymouth Road Runner 383

Top
#4742325 - 04/29/18 12:14 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 32489
Loc: ME
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.

Top
#4742327 - 04/29/18 12:17 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: eljefino]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4206
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.


And draining half of your blood supply can make you lose weight.

Top
#4742339 - 04/29/18 12:30 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2595
Loc: Wet side WA
About the same amount as blowing your nose!
_________________________
2004 Toyota Corolla 120668
Out: QSUD 5W-30 Purolator One 5030
In: Valvoline ML 5w-30 TG4967 117530 2-8-18
2006 Duramax 73822
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73752 4-22-18

Top
#4742365 - 04/29/18 12:53 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: eljefino]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 5950
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.


This has been common knowledge in engines for years.

Many racers in "stock" (very strict rules) classes will only run 3 quarts in a 5-qt V8 engine oil pan.
In a 12 second drag race, you only need oil pressure for the 12 seconds of run time. If 2 quarts would do the trick, they would do it.

"Crankcase windage" can kill 10HP easily - at rated RPM.

Normal "grocery getter commuter cars" typically will never see a difference in anything if run a whole quart low.

Yes, I am serious!
Did you ever think the new Nissans with only a 3 quart capacity might have other reasons for their decision ?!?!!? Everyone is trying to get better MPG across the fleet.

EDIT: OK, I just watched the video. That was no surprise at all.
If they keep pulling oil out, HP has to go higher. It ALWAYS does!


Edited by Linctex (04/29/18 12:58 PM)
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4742425 - 04/29/18 02:14 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1533
Loc: Alberta
The difference does not show up until 4,000 rpm, so don’t bother unless you like operating there.

Top
#4742433 - 04/29/18 02:23 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
E365 Offline


Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 421
Loc: USA
I wanted them to put 0w-16 in there and see if power was gained! laugh
_________________________
Whatever’s on sale...

Top
#4742518 - 04/29/18 03:53 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
rideahorse Offline


Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 87
Loc: Charles City, Iowa
Every thing runs the best right before it blows up.

Top
#4742667 - 04/29/18 06:35 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: eljefino]
CR94 Offline


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1058
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.
I don't know about that "fact," but I'm careful not to refill mine with more than the specified volume---which incidentally does not bring the level all the way to "the top pip of the stick," only about 90% of the way up from the lower pip.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Prius now at 88K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K

Top
#4742678 - 04/29/18 06:41 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4225
Loc: Taiwan
How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? - Er, none. Trick question? Or maybe stupid question?

How much horsepower does your oil amount rob? - Er, none. unless the oil level is excessive?

How much horsepower does an excessive oil level rob? - Er, quite a lot, because the crankshaft hits it.

This is not news.

The assumption in the above discussion that Less=More seems unlikely to be generally valid. I;d expect there to be a cutoff below which you wouldn't gain much if any horsepower but might loose your engine

Top
#4742689 - 04/29/18 06:53 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10730
Loc: Idaho
The after market oil pan must be poor quality. Too much drama for a mans program.
_________________________
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity, we shall prevail

Top
#4742742 - 04/29/18 07:51 PM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5394
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
With a well designed windage tray, there should be little or no difference in high to low on the dip stick.

If you really want to save HP at RPM, you go dry sump and vacuum pump. You pay something for the pumping losses, but not as much smile
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

Top
#4743044 - 04/30/18 07:44 AM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: Linctex]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 9823
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a "known fact" among prius drivers that running 1/2 quart low (from the top pip of the stick) has MPG gains.


This has been common knowledge in engines for years.

Many racers in "stock" (very strict rules) classes will only run 3 quarts in a 5-qt V8 engine oil pan.
In a 12 second drag race, you only need oil pressure for the 12 seconds of run time. If 2 quarts would do the trick, they would do it.

"Crankcase windage" can kill 10HP easily - at rated RPM.

Normal "grocery getter commuter cars" typically will never see a difference in anything if run a whole quart low.

Yes, I am serious!
Did you ever think the new Nissans with only a 3 quart capacity might have other reasons for their decision ?!?!!? Everyone is trying to get better MPG across the fleet.

EDIT: OK, I just watched the video. That was no surprise at all.
If they keep pulling oil out, HP has to go higher. It ALWAYS does!


I don't understand. The oil is still pumping regardless of the volume in the sump. I can see the 3 quarts warming up faster, but I would assume the engines would already be hot.

Also, some cars fitted for drag racing (obviously not stock) have over sized sumps.
_________________________
03 Jeep WJ 4.0 197k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 170k M1 0w40 Mann HU819X
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 142k Rotella T5 10w30 Fram TG3980


Top
#4743088 - 04/30/18 08:32 AM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4225
Loc: Taiwan
Thinking about it a bit more, I think I not sure exactly what was going on here either.

I'd always assumed that the issue with over-filling was the crank actually hitting the oil surface, but I guess the term "windage" implies its actually rotating air entrained by the cranks motion and blowing oil off the surface.

If that's the case the horsepower loss may be partly due to air resistance, and maybe there won't be a sharp cutoff like there would be if hitting an oil surface.

I'd also assumed the dry-sump thing was to avoid oil starvation due to the oil going sideways due to lateral G's, and pumping losses from the piston underside pushing air around. Hadn't thought of air resistance to the cranks riotation.

Top
#4743131 - 04/30/18 09:01 AM Re: Video: How much horsepower does your oil pan rob? [Re: GemStater]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4206
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Another thing is there were V-8 engines, (Oldsmobile and Buick among them), that had issues with the oil pump starving out because the oil couldn't drain back into the oil pan fast enough. Forcing the oil pump to basically to suck wind instead of oil. This led to bearing failure as oil pressure would fall to zero if the engine were run for any length of time at high RPM's. (Above 4,500 RPM). Like in jet boat applications. There were even kits that could be installed in these engines that would somehow prevent this from happening.

When I lived in Lake Havasu City, my neighbor had a race boat with a 455 Oldsmobile "Rocket" V-8 in it. He told me about this, and showed me the kit he installed in the engine to prevent it. He warned me if I was ever in the market for this type of boat, (Oldsmobile / Buick V-8 powered), and it did not have this kit installed, to run, not walk away from it. Running an engine of this type low on oil would make an already bad condition even worse. Deliberately running any engine with less than the rated oil capacity just seems foolish.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0302phr-oldsmobile-455ci-engine-build/

"The narrow passages from the stock heads do not allow oil in the valvetrain to return to the pan in an efficient manner. This condition can lead to instant death for a 455 that is run wide open for extended periods of time."

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >