straight-weight 20 oil

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straight-weight 20

is there a straight-weight 20 on the market that meets the requirements of 10W (cold cranking, pumping, etc. specs)
Sounds like Valvoline had one in the old days (refer to link below)
it maybe a very specific oil and not mass marketable!

why do I ask:
based on what i have learned on BITOG ... making a few assumptions here and please correct me if i am wrong:
  • straight-weight oils have no VII.
  • low viscosity straight-weight oils have a reasonable (good/high) VI.
  • Less or no VII means less shearing which is a good quality.


my primitive conclusion:
if you live in a 10W climate and the manufacturer spec is xW-20 ... why not use straight 20 assuming that it has all other goodies and packages ...

some background info:
based on my recent vi and vii relationship thread, shannow showed some graphs and it made me think if straight a 20 can work in fair climates for the cars that are speced 0W-20 or 5W-20?
that led me to an old (1/6/2008) thread (ref below) which I didn't want to resurrect.
it got even better since I found straight 20 which could be 10W-20 ...
interesting read if you have time.

"20W20 Went in this afternoon" by G-MAN

20W20 Went in this afternoon by G-MAN


in case the link didn't work:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1059485&page=1

this old thread answered another one of my questions:
A straight 20 can be labeled as SAE 20W, SAE 20, or SAE 20w20.
 
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You can call Renewable Lube and see if they'll blend you some of the SAE20 I had formulated for my fleet several years ago. They probably will, but you might have to buy a couple or few drums at a time.
 
Great for a laugh.....

I LOVE the custom bottle label!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gallon-S-A-E-20-Motor-Oil/146527506

a8dd88f5-b180-463b-b5fd-3d239eaf3e81_1.e445d068265ea0178b6e9229c735ba66.jpeg
 
Son of Joe has advocated a (hypothetical) 10W-20 for a while in several posts. It would probably be fine in my circumstances, despite what Toyota says.
 
There are limited sources for a 20w20 oil, I don't think a 10w20 exists.
Phillips makes a fleet oil in a 20w20.
" Conoco HD Fleet Engine Oil is a high-quality, single-grade oil formulated from Conoco's premium hydrocracked base stock and unique additive technology. This oil is highly recommended for on- and off-highway applications in both diesel and gasoline engines. It controls soot and reduces wear, deposits, rust and corrosion. HD Fleet Engine Oil resists foaming and high-temperature oxidation and thickening. It is available in viscosity grades SAE 10W, 20W20, 30, 40 and 50 and meets API service classifications CF-2, CF, SJ and SH (10W CF, SH only)."

Interesting topic, OP. Lately I've been think a lot about straight weights in my 6.7 Powerstroke. 30 weight mono grades are more common, and the Mobil 1630 is really a 15w30 by the PDS sheet. Very similar specs to Delo SD which actually claims to be a 15w30, but in reality mimics a mono.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Try Red Line 0w-20. No vis index improvers an a VI of 172.


I believe it’s the 5W-20 that contains no VII. Group 4/5 base is around 150 VI.
 
To clarify, after reading that old thread (ref above), I wondered if there is a straight-weight 20 that passes 10W requirements.
They mentioned Valvoline 20 but that was 10 years go!
But if Valvoline 20 was truly a 10W-20, why didn't they market it as such back then?

Basically i was looking for no VII options and I also assumed that all multi-grade oils have VII ... wrong again! lol
OneEyeJack mentioned "Try Red Line 0w-20. No vis index improvers an a VI of 172." or is it their 5W-20.
do oil companies publish that data (no vii)?
 
Most do because they are using group 3 base stock which is around 130 VI, and to get it to the typical 150-160 for a 5W-30, VII is added. Redline is Group 4/5 based which has a natural VI around 150. So their 5W-20 at 147 is essentially VII-free (I think it was confirmed by a member as well). Same for their 10W-30.
 
Originally Posted By: beanoil
There are limited sources for a 20w20 oil, I don't think a 10w20 exists.
Phillips makes a fleet oil in a 20w20.
" Conoco HD Fleet Engine Oil is a high-quality, single-grade oil formulated from Conoco's premium hydrocracked base stock and unique additive technology. This oil is highly recommended for on- and off-highway applications in both diesel and gasoline engines. It controls soot and reduces wear, deposits, rust and corrosion. HD Fleet Engine Oil resists foaming and high-temperature oxidation and thickening. It is available in viscosity grades SAE 10W, 20W20, 30, 40 and 50 and meets API service classifications CF-2, CF, SJ and SH (10W CF, SH only)."

Interesting topic, OP. Lately I've been think a lot about straight weights in my 6.7 Powerstroke. 30 weight mono grades are more common, and the Mobil 1630 is really a 15w30 by the PDS sheet. Very similar specs to Delo SD which actually claims to be a 15w30, but in reality mimics a mono.


mono grade 30 (15W30 ish) is very close to ideal for many cases. if it was 10W instead of 15W (mono 30 - really 10W-30) and no VII I would definitely use it!

short of buying barrels of oil (I have been cleaning up the garage for the past 4 months and my wife is very happy), I will have to look at red line, considering the price & performance. I use red line s1 fuel injector cleaner (is that exact same as Techron formula?).
 
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We bounced this around a while back but I'm having problems with the BIGOG search facility finding out exactly what I posted. However, this is what I think I wrote..

If you Google 'Citgo 600' you'll find a PDF about Citgo's range of monograde API CF HDDO oils. Look at the SAE 10W oil. It has the following properties....

KV100 6.9 cst
KV40 41.0 cst
CCS-25 4,000 cP
MRV-30 10,000 cP
HTHS 2.3 cP
Ash 0.9 wt%
TBN 8.0
Noack (nothing specified)

In terms of KV100 & CCS-25, this oil is a 10W20 oil (albeit, right on the knocker). In terms of HTHS it isn't (it needs to be 2.6 min) but would qualify as a 10W16 oil.

The thing to notice about this oil is the CCS-25. Set against the 10W spec of 7,000 cP max., this oil has a stupidly low CCS-25 of 4,000. This says to me there is considerable scope to heavy up the base oil mix of this monograde. If you do that, the KV100 & HTHS will both rise and the Noack of the oil will drop. I don't have access to my old tool box these days but I'm guessing that this exercise would yield a fully on-grade 10W20. What's more, this oil would be very 'tweakable' in that you might be able to create a bit of magic with a splosh of Group III and a smidge of high SSI VII.

To me 10W20 represents an engine oil that...

- is extremely cheap to make with conventional Group II base oil
- contains little or no VII
- has a low Noack (lower if it contains some Group III)
- requires a very low DI treat (especially in terms of Ashless Dispersant)
- provides 'good enough' & cost-effective fuel economy

It points to what could be done if only someone could be bothered to do it!
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
...
To me 10W20 represents an engine oil that...

- is extremely cheap to make with conventional Group II base oil
- contains little or no VII
- has a low Noack (lower if it contains some Group III)
- requires a very low DI treat (especially in terms of Ashless Dispersant)
- provides 'good enough' & cost-effective fuel economy

It points to what could be done if only someone could be bothered to do it!


this sounds like a winner. I was only focusing on low/no VII and I assumed such an oil would also have a low Noack (don't know why but was a gut feeling based on what I have read on BITOG) ... the other bullets are also very big plus!
Maybe Bob can start his own company with all the experts he has access to! lol
 
SonofJoe, CITGO was always my go to source for monograde data, they've cut back on their range there's no 20W20.

But re the points on your 10W16, here's Castrol Tection
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/D370E9D2E952F39C80257B8D0043F2EE/$File/BPXE-98S4XZ.pdf

Definitely a 20 grade.

as to the 20W, the CCS at 2,400 at -15C means it would likely be 4,800 at -20C (15W is 7,000 max), so it's almost certainly a 15W20, wouldn't make it to 10W probably, not with a -30C pour point either.

a 10W with a dash of Amsoil's SAE30/10W30 with 3.4 HTHS would be a nice semi syn.

OilUzer, re why the oils aren't sold as 10W20...under J300, monogrades without VII can be sold either way, with or without W rating...they wouldn't show 10W, as it would confuse their purchasers.

a multigrade with Viscosity Modification MUST be labelled with the lowest W that it meets.
 
SAE viscosity grades are not optional ... the oil is rated for what it tests at, no more, no less.

So an SAE 20 that grades at 10W either wasn't graded for W by the blender or it's a 20 at winter temps, not a 10W.

Some "straight weight" oils are tested for W and that's where you will see a 20W20 grade (for example). I think it was more common back in the day when the really good stuff was being pumped instead of the "whatever's left" pools we usually have today.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
SAE viscosity grades are not optional ... the oil is rated for what it tests at, no more, no less.

So an SAE 20 that grades at 10W either wasn't graded for W by the blender or it's a 20 at winter temps, not a 10W.

Some "straight weight" oils are tested for W and that's where you will see a 20W20 grade (for example). I think it was more common back in the day when the really good stuff was being pumped instead of the "whatever's left" pools we usually have today.


Nope, there's provision in the SAE grading system that monogrades can be graded as the grade, and/or any of the "W" grades that it meets.

If it's a multigrade, with Viscosity modification, it MUST be labelled with the lowest grade that it meets.

edit, I think we are sort of on the same page...

Quote:
Most oils will meet the viscosity requirements of at least one of the W grades. Nevertheless, consistent with historic
practice, any Newtonian oil may be labeled as a single-grade oil (either with or without a W). Oils which are formulated
with polymeric viscosity index improvers for the purpose of making them multiviscosity-grade products are non-Newtonian
and must be labeled with the appropriate multiviscosity grade (both W and high-temperature grade).
 
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Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
SAE viscosity grades are not optional ... the oil is rated for what it tests at, no more, no less.

So an SAE 20 that grades at 10W either wasn't graded for W by the blender or it's a 20 at winter temps, not a 10W.

Some "straight weight" oils are tested for W and that's where you will see a 20W20 grade (for example). I think it was more common back in the day when the really good stuff was being pumped instead of the "whatever's left" pools we usually have today.



I'm not sure I agree with what you're saying here.

A oil company may know full well that a VII-free oil fully complies with the testing requirements of say 10W20. However they legitimately have the freedom to sell this an SAE 10W, an SAE 20 (both mono grades) or as a 10W20 multi grade. Likewise, if an oil company has an oil which technically meets the combined requirements of say SN/A3/B4, they can sell individual oils marked SN only, A3 only, B3 only, B4 only, SN/A3, A3/B3, A3/B4 or the full Monty; SN/A3/B4.

The basic principle at play here is that as long as you don't lie, you're okay but you're absolutely not compelled to reveal 100% of the truth.
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
We bounced this around a while back but I'm having problems with the BIGOG search facility finding out exactly what I posted.


FWIW, google has a great search feature. Type in "site:bobistheoilguy.com sonofjoe searchterm(s)" and it will limit searching to bitog. I use this occasionally (here and elsewhere) when I want to look up an old post of mine.
 
If you are looking for and your engine calls for a 20wt, why not use a quality synthetic 0-20? I have for the last 430K miles with excellent results. Now I did use Valvoline straight 20 in the 60s for a time. Old school.
 
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