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Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: bora350] #4738500 04/25/18 01:36 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted By: bora350
I also think that Mobil 1 is a deceptive company. Notice that they have many articles on the benefits of a "full synthetic oil", possibly a legal term that designates no conventional and only the good stuff. Yet, not once in any of their advertising do they use the term "full synthetic oil," it's always Advanced full synthetic/ or synthetic motor oil to skirt under the requirements.

What requirement is that?


1994 BMW 530i, 251K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 428K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: Linctex] #4738508 04/25/18 01:49 PM
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Jooksing Offline
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Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: kschachn

I don't understand how it is "watered down".


Yes, it was a poor choice of words.

However,

Some people, when they pay for more..... expect more.


My understanding is that the new formula was easier (cheaper) to formulate. As for performance it would be assume less desirable but this is debated.

Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #4739443 04/26/18 09:05 AM
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LeakySeals Offline
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For some reason when it comes to oil, many think it stays the same, doesn't change with the times. Members of BITOG for years still cling to facts, rumors, myths decades old. Yes, there was a time when M1 was real synthetic oil created in a lab. That oil was known for hardening rubber and silicon gaskets and seals, ultimately creating leaks. But that M1 doesn't exist anymore. Extinct. Modern day M1 is hydrocracked/synthesized dinosoars with a special sauce. Just like every other brand sold OTC at Walmart.

I like trying different brands in my 6.0L lq9. It "feels" the smoothest and most responsive throughout an OLM OCI running M1. Doesn't burn any, no makeup oil. It does weep but no drips around the filter and oil pan using M1, does not do that with other brands. Assume thats the result of better flow, willing to live with that for a smoother feeling engine.


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 170k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L 170k Maxlife HM 10w30
05 Malibu Classic 2.2 111k M1 5w30
06 Altima 2.5L 167k unk
Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: bora350] #4739462 04/26/18 09:17 AM
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2015_PSD Online Content
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Posts: 8,170
Originally Posted By: bora350
I recently changed my oil to Mobil 1 5w-30 synthetic from QSUD because of Spring rebate and the redesign for SN+ reduced everything I liked about QS. This is on a 5.4 triton. Maybe I'm biased from reading all the shortcomings, but I'd say there is a detectable difference in engine noise. Much more scratchy in the lower RPMs, if that makes sense. We'll see if it holds up during a 5000 mile interval. If it gets worse, then next change will be with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or PPHM.


I also think that Mobil 1 is a deceptive company. Notice that they have many articles on the benefits of a "full synthetic oil", possibly a legal term that designates no conventional and only the good stuff. Yet, not once in any of their advertising do they use the term "full synthetic oil," it's always Advanced full synthetic/ or synthetic motor oil to skirt under the requirements.
I ran M1 for up to 17K in my 5.4 and never experienced a "noisier" engine--not that you could tell with a Triton engine which is "diesel-esque" anyway.

Marketing and subjective opinions aside, can anyone honestly say that Mobil makes oil of significantly lesser quality than its competitors? I would love to see the data.


2019 o)|||||(o Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited 3.6L V6 [Castrol Edge 0W-20 + FRAM Ultra]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 & Mann filter]
Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #4739571 04/26/18 11:09 AM
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Broo Offline
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My 3 more mordern vehicles all run M1 HM, two use 5W30, one uses 5W20.

for my two older ones, it's Castrol GTX HM 10w30. I would use M1 too since they do make 10w30 in their HM lineup, but I can't get it locally.

Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4739691 04/26/18 01:08 PM
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PSD… Most common “noise” after asking that several times? “Crickets” …

Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: Jooksing] #4739698 04/26/18 01:30 PM
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tig1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jooksing
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: kschachn

I don't understand how it is "watered down".


Yes, it was a poor choice of words.

However,

Some people, when they pay for more..... expect more.


My understanding is that the new formula was easier (cheaper) to formulate. As for performance it would be assume less desirable but this is debated.


Once again you are wrong and continue to spread false info.


2007 Ford Fusion 250,000 miles
M1 5-20HM
2017 Ford Fusion 83K
M1 0-20EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: tig1] #4739718 04/26/18 01:46 PM
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Jooksing Offline
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Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Jooksing
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: kschachn

I don't understand how it is "watered down".


Yes, it was a poor choice of words.

However,

Some people, when they pay for more..... expect more.


My understanding is that the new formula was easier (cheaper) to formulate. As for performance it would be assume less desirable but this is debated.


Once again you are wrong and continue to spread false info.


Sorry. I am still learning. Please correct me. -not being sarcastic

My limited understanding is based on what I have read so far.

Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: Jooksing] #4739819 04/26/18 04:30 PM
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OVERKILL Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jooksing


Sorry. I am still learning. Please correct me. -not being sarcastic

My limited understanding is based on what I have read so far.


It varies WILDLY grade-to-grade.

I wouldn't say you are "wrong", as in one sense, you are correct that some of the oils Mobil presently produces, using less expensive bases, are indeed cheaper to formulate. On the other hand, there are a number of oils with significant portions of PAO in them, at least based on the limits of what we can glean from the MSDS sheets, which was the main ingredient in the pre-dispute era Mobil 1 product line.

PAO is expensive, but then so are POE and AN's, and all of these bases exist in Mobil's product portfolio through XOM Chemical. While VISOM, which is Mobil's "Group III+" base, is cheaper to manufacture than PAO, Mobil is one of the largest manufacturers of PAO on the planet, and do use it, in varying dose levels, in their products.

VISOM was, when it was developed, designed to be nothing more than a high-VI intermediate, bridging the formulation gap from a product line that was PAO-based to one that would use significant amounts of GTL base oil, which is also less expensive to produce, but takes massive investment to bring to market in any volume, something that Shell has demonstrated aptly with their Pearl facility. The idea was to go from PAO, to a PAO/VISOM blend, a ratio that would vary depending on formulation requirements to meet performance targets, to an eventual PAO/GTL blend.

When Mobil cancelled their massive GTL plant in Qatar, the general view on here was that they'd just soldier on with VISOM, however that has not been the case, as M1 0w-40 "FS" appeared, having a significant portion of its base mix as FT-derived (GTL) Group III in it, indicating that Mobil was indeed using GTL. Are they purchasing it from Shell, or have they managed to convert or expand one of their many existing gas plants to produce this base? We don't know, and Mobil's websites are absent of details. We do know this was the eventual goal as provided in their roadmap however, and forging ahead with it would indicate that they've managed to secure, via production or procurement, sufficient GTL to make that happen.

The BBB dispute with Castrol allowed for oils with Group III bases to be labelled as "synthetic". However, at least as far as the 0w-xx crowd shows, PAO still is a key component, in varying quantities, regardless of that fact. Castrol's own 0w-40 still has a good slug of PAO in it, which they would be sourcing from somebody like XOM or CP, and if they could get away with making it all Group III, I'm sure they would.

All three of Mobil's 0w-20's have significant amounts of PAO in them, with the EP and AP products being well into majority territory (according to the MSDS anyways). So these oils are far from "cheap" to formulate and likely, are as close to the "old" Mobil formulations, in terms of the amount of PAO in them, as possible.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #4739848 04/26/18 05:23 PM
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I used M1 0w20 many years ago when I first bought my ol' Ford Focus. As others mentioned....the engine just sounded loud...so I decided to see if another oil would sound quieter.

I switched to QSUD 0w20 which IMO helped my engine quiet down. Lately I've used Pennzoil Platinum Ultra 0w20 with the same excellent results, and will continue to use it.


03' Ford Focus SE(2.3L Duratec PZEV)/ 140K +
Pnz. Ultra 0w20 / Fram 'Ultra'/ OCI: 8000 +/-
ATF: Mercon V w/Lubegard Red

Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: 4WD] #4740009 04/26/18 08:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,170
2015_PSD Online Content
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Posts: 8,170
Originally Posted By: 4WD
PSD… Most common “noise” after asking that several times? “Crickets” …
Indeed thumbsup approved


2019 o)|||||(o Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited 3.6L V6 [Castrol Edge 0W-20 + FRAM Ultra]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 & Mann filter]
Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: OVERKILL] #4740021 04/26/18 08:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,875
4WD Offline
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Jooksing


Sorry. I am still learning. Please correct me. -not being sarcastic

My limited understanding is based on what I have read so far.


It varies WILDLY grade-to-grade.

I wouldn't say you are "wrong", as in one sense, you are correct that some of the oils Mobil presently produces, using less expensive bases, are indeed cheaper to formulate. On the other hand, there are a number of oils with significant portions of PAO in them, at least based on the limits of what we can glean from the MSDS sheets, which was the main ingredient in the pre-dispute era Mobil 1 product line.

PAO is expensive, but then so are POE and AN's, and all of these bases exist in Mobil's product portfolio through XOM Chemical. While VISOM, which is Mobil's "Group III+" base, is cheaper to manufacture than PAO, Mobil is one of the largest manufacturers of PAO on the planet, and do use it, in varying dose levels, in their products.

VISOM was, when it was developed, designed to be nothing more than a high-VI intermediate, bridging the formulation gap from a product line that was PAO-based to one that would use significant amounts of GTL base oil, which is also less expensive to produce, but takes massive investment to bring to market in any volume, something that Shell has demonstrated aptly with their Pearl facility. The idea was to go from PAO, to a PAO/VISOM blend, a ratio that would vary depending on formulation requirements to meet performance targets, to an eventual PAO/GTL blend.

When Mobil cancelled their massive GTL plant in Qatar, the general view on here was that they'd just soldier on with VISOM, however that has not been the case, as M1 0w-40 "FS" appeared, having a significant portion of its base mix as FT-derived (GTL) Group III in it, indicating that Mobil was indeed using GTL. Are they purchasing it from Shell, or have they managed to convert or expand one of their many existing gas plants to produce this base? We don't know, and Mobil's websites are absent of details. We do know this was the eventual goal as provided in their roadmap however, and forging ahead with it would indicate that they've managed to secure, via production or procurement, sufficient GTL to make that happen.

The BBB dispute with Castrol allowed for oils with Group III bases to be labelled as "synthetic". However, at least as far as the 0w-xx crowd shows, PAO still is a key component, in varying quantities, regardless of that fact. Castrol's own 0w-40 still has a good slug of PAO in it, which they would be sourcing from somebody like XOM or CP, and if they could get away with making it all Group III, I'm sure they would.

All three of Mobil's 0w-20's have significant amounts of PAO in them, with the EP and AP products being well into majority territory (according to the MSDS anyways). So these oils are far from "cheap" to formulate and likely, are as close to the "old" Mobil formulations, in terms of the amount of PAO in them, as possible.


Good post … I could run AFE since OLM will shut me down … but $4 more I know I’m getting over 60% PAO … I’m in

Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #4740923 04/27/18 07:03 PM
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Probably because the rave here is in Supertech's favor nowadays. I dunno why, personally, I wouldn't use that cheap [censored] in my lawnmower! Mainly because I don't wanna line the Walton family's pockets anymore than I absolutely have to. At least if I buy Mobil 1 or any other name brand I know most of the profit goes back to that company instead of Walmart.


2004 Toyota Tacoma 3.4 V6: Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30, FRAM PH3614 filter
2003 Buick Park Avenue Ultra S/C 3.8 V6: PYB 5W-30, FRAM PH3387 filter
2013 Honda 400EX ATV: Mobil 1 Racing 4t 10W-40, OEM filter
Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: jongies3] #4741730 04/28/18 06:55 PM
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93cruiser Offline
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Originally Posted By: jongies3
Probably because the rave here is in Supertech's favor nowadays. I dunno why, personally, I wouldn't use that cheap [censored] in my lawnmower! Mainly because I don't wanna line the Walton family's pockets anymore than I absolutely have to. At least if I buy Mobil 1 or any other name brand I know most of the profit goes back to that company instead of Walmart.


Don't know why supertech is considered to be in such high regard, I'll go name brand. Name brand is not much more anyway. Great post, you nailed it.

Re: Why Less Love For Mobil 1 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #4741780 04/28/18 07:29 PM
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Dak27 Offline
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I've been running M-1 HM 5W30 in my F-250HD with a 460 for the last 3 or 4 years. I'm also running M-1 in my daughter's car. Excellent product line, IMO.

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