Oil Filter cut RVAV4 130kmi - What is black grit?

[OleBillL]

I hope the photo test works.

RAV4, primarily short trips, 135k on car, 5k on oil, 12 months, Castrol Edge. I always cut my filters, this started about 3 changes ago. I switched to EDGE from Valvoline 10W40 semi synthetic after finding the first material. No metals in the filter, ferrous or otherwise. This is the worst not yet, EDGE may be cleaning. If that is the case, them maybe some long runs with filter only change at 1500 mi would tell. Any thoughts, experts?

This appears tone carbon, gritty when rubbing between my fingers at first but breaks down. I don't know where it is forming, or why. I am a many decades engine guy and have never seen this. I have run many cars over 150k. With and without synthetics.

 

[OleBillL]

Another picture with better focus.

 

[77GrandPrix]

Looks like sludge. How long have you owned the vehicle?

 

[KrisZ]

Looks like sludge. Do you know the maintenance history of this car? I would probably cut the OCI to 3k miles and cut open filters to monitor these deposits

 

[supton]

Looks like sludge. Maybe the oil is doing some cleaning--or maybe it's not up to snuff in this application.

What year? My '99 5S-FE, when I took the valve cover off, had the same stuff on the spark plug tubes. I think it likes to build there for some reason, hotter than surrounding areas, maybe?

I'm not sure if it matters too much. Oil filter is doing its thing, and isn't close to being plugged up. 5k isn't that long of an OCI (unless if pure city). Maybe just continue to monitor the situation and see if it changes (better or worse). How hard is it to pull the valve cover for an inspection?

 

[maxdustington]

Looks like someone dropped a power bait in the oil fill.

 

[Overfill]

Is your car a daily commuter?

 

[JLTD]

Same question here - are you the original owner? If not then agree with cleaning is working. You may want to try an oil known for good cleaning abolity such as Pennzoil dino or M1.

 

[Koz1]

Does oil in that engine go through any kind of rubber hose or is there a chunk of rubber some where in that system?

 

[webfors]

Please clarify, did this start while running the Valvoline, or only after you switched to Edge?

 

[OleBillL]

Thanks for your replies!

I am original owner of the car, wife's car. The oil has been changed regularly within the 5k miles recommendation. Valvoline semi synthetic was used since new, up to about 115k miles, when I noticed the condition. I switched to EDGE in an attempt to clean it up, maybe it is doing just that. I thought might just stop after the last change, but this one was worse than previous. The blackness definitely has to be come carbon and even if microscopic in size the particles will be hard. While the filter catches it, I really don't want it going through the pump either. The only thing I have ever seen of similar consistency is within an intake where blow-by gasses hit a hot surface. Modern engines have much hotter surfaces than the ones from 30 yrs ago.

This is a 2001 RAV4 with the standard 4 cylinder engine. Lots of runs under 15 miles, starting from room temp. It is kept in a heated garage in winter, but I think it probably takes a good 20 miles in winter to reach normal temperatures. The gage shows normal pretty quickly, but experience says the oil takes much longer.

I will add, for the past couple of years, if left sitting for a couple of days it will give some oil smoke when started and takes a good 3 minutes min to go away. Me thinks it is bad valve guide seals, but can not see how that might have produced the condition presented. The plugs don't foul, and it does not use oil between changes. Blow-by could be high even without loss of oil control, though. I'll check that.

I am thinking the 3k oil change period recommendation might just be the ticket.

Removal of the valve cover is an option that I have considered.

This RAV4 has been, until now, the most trouble free car I have ever owned. 14 VWs '62-68', '78 Volvo 242 160k, C10 260k, Sable 140k, Saturn 120k, BMW 540 155k, '88M5 155k. In order of worst: Saturn, 540, Sable, Volvo, C10 - The 540 may have been worth the trouble, but needy.

 

[wag123]

It doesn't look like sludge to me and I don't think it has anything to do with the oil you are using. It is obvious to me that your valve guide seals have failed based upon your observation of oil smoke at startup after it has been sitting. It might very well be remnants of old/failed/bad valve guide seals that are coming apart. I would be worried that the oil pickup is getting restricted by the stuff. Valve guide seals don't last forever and I would be willing to bet that if you take it apart to replace them that there won't be much left of them.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: wag123
It doesn't look like sludge to me and I don't think it has anything to do with the oil you are using. It is obvious to me that your valve guide seals have failed based upon your observation of oil smoke at startup after it has been sitting. It might very well be remnants of old/failed/bad valve guide seals that are coming apart. I would be worried that the oil pickup is getting restricted by the stuff. Valve guide seals don't last forever and I would be willing to bet that if you take it apart to replace them that there won't be much left of them.


With this much grit, and that's just from one oil change, if these were remnants of the seals that would mean the seals were totally ground away and this engine would literally have a James Bond style smoke screen behind it all the time. Plus I think OP mentioned that his grit breaks up when rubbed with fingers. Rubber, EPDM, Viton etc. material would not do that.

 

[supton]

I think it's sludge, similar to what was building up on my 5S-FE. I too found black grit in the first couple oil filters that I cut open on this car (haven't checked lately).
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4295647/Under_valvcover:_'99_Camry

 

[Trav]

I think what we are seeing here is carbon from lower parts of the pistons near the rings and the Edge is doing some cleaning.
Oil consumption may increase as the rings start moving more freely. IMO keep going with the Edge for a few full OCI before investigating further.

Make sure to replace the PCV valve and run the same oil for a full OCI you are not in any danger of overloading the filter from what I see in the picture. I wouldn't be too worried about this.