When do you stop?

[Leo99]

My wife limits repairs on her Rav4 to $350. But also wants it to last until the 2019 Rav4 debuts in showrooms. That means no major work for it. The strut boots are torn but they're original and the struts still work fine.

Cars can go 400k miles if you get lucky, no reason to neglect start neglecting them at only 180k miles.

 

[SeaJay]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
If you let problems go without fixing them, then more and more problems are going to pile up and your car becomes more and more of a piece of junk that you'll hate driving, and it won't be worth fixing because it would cost too much to fix all of its issues. Not fixing things because you feel the car will become junky soon is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Whereas if you fix things as they break, the car will always be in decent shape, and the next time something breaks, you'll be more likely to fix it. You'll think, "Aside from this one broken thing, everything else on the car works great. If I fix this one issue, the car will be back to perfect."

So if you like the car and want to get as many miles out of it as you can, starting fixing everything that's wrong with it.


You can obviously keep a car going forever with this approach.

But it may not always make financial sense to keep dumping money on expensive repairs. But it can be done.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: SeaJay
Originally Posted By: exranger06
If you let problems go without fixing them, then more and more problems are going to pile up and your car becomes more and more of a piece of junk that you'll hate driving, and it won't be worth fixing because it would cost too much to fix all of its issues. Not fixing things because you feel the car will become junky soon is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Whereas if you fix things as they break, the car will always be in decent shape, and the next time something breaks, you'll be more likely to fix it. You'll think, "Aside from this one broken thing, everything else on the car works great. If I fix this one issue, the car will be back to perfect."

So if you like the car and want to get as many miles out of it as you can, starting fixing everything that's wrong with it.


You can obviously keep a car going forever with this approach.

But it may not always make financial sense to keep dumping money on expensive repairs. But it can be done.


Exactly correct. My Rav4 needs oil seals and an AC compressor. It is not getting either. They'd cost more than it's worth. A can of freon every now and then and some top off oil and it keeps on going.

 

[Kestas]

For me the deciding factor is how I feel about the reliability of the car. I need a car that can reliably get me to work and for my interstate travel. If I feel that's in jeopardy, I'll unload the car to someone more tolerant of repairs. This is historically at the 20 year mark or 170K, whichever comes first.

 

[mclasser]

My approach with my older vehicles is to keep up with fluids and safety items, like brakes, suspension, lights, etc, but not sweat the other stuff. Yeah, I've got some faded paint, oil leaks, morning belt chirp, a hanging up caliper and a finicky moonroof switch, but whatever. Being able to do some work yourself is always a plus.

 

[Nick1994]

Focus motor mounts are always bad, even if you replace with new ones, the aftermarket ones are junk. So ignore that unless the engine is flopping around.

Jack up the front end and grab the wheels and check for play. If no play, don't worry about it.

Replace the hanger for cheap.

Other than that just keep driving til it blows up.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
If you let problems go without fixing them, then more and more problems are going to pile up and your car becomes more and more of a piece of junk that you'll hate driving, and it won't be worth fixing because it would cost too much to fix all of its issues. Not fixing things because you feel the car will become junky soon is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Whereas if you fix things as they break, the car will always be in decent shape, and the next time something breaks, you'll be more likely to fix it. You'll think, "Aside from this one broken thing, everything else on the car works great. If I fix this one issue, the car will be back to perfect."

So if you like the car and want to get as many miles out of it as you can, starting fixing everything that's wrong with it.


This reminds me of people who say "this heap has cost me $x over the past 3 months". Most of that was deferred maintenance, and why would you invest in a car and then use that as an excuse to sell it? PO of my car put like $3k into it within a year of selling it to me for $750.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

It's different for eveyone because everyone has a different tolerance for grief and a different concept of economy.

There is no doubt that driving a used car, even one that requires regular repairs, is cheaper than a car payment that you pay every month, on top of whatever maintenance you need to do. Whether your payment is $200 or $600 a month, the most frustratingly unreliable car I've ever owned ... or heard of, for that matter ... didn't drain that steady, month in month out amount of cash.

Looking at your list I see a wild guesstimate of $1300 in parts. That's six months payments on an economy car, half of which is lost immediately to depreciation. You've owned this thing for somewhere near three years.

The math doesn't lie.

But that is not the whole equation for everyone. Some people hate working on cars ... yes, even some "car guys" hate it. Paying a shop to do work on used cars is at least twice as expensive, and if that's all, consider yourself lucky. But the numbers *still* ad up in favour of used.

And then there is the time, if there was any time, where you were stranded. Some people dislike that a lot, even though a few days worth of cab fare is nothing compared to steady car payments.

And let's not forget that it's not like a new car is always trouble-free. They aren't, actually. The issues may be minor, but the time spent in cab fare is the same, or in an uninspiring loaner from the dealer when all you want is your car back.

So you have to decide. Me? I will never own a new car, and not because I can't afford one, it's because I won't afford one. You may see it differently.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata
Obviously, with a 17-year old commuter car, I'm not going to fix the rust.


Isn't obvious to me, but it depends what you mean by "fix". I'd agree that cosmetic repair is a waste of time and money.

OTOH, slowing down/stopping rust on a DIY basis is trivial in terms of expense, required expertise, and equipment. Provided you keep whatever you use off the brakes there is very little chance of screwing up badly. You are already seeing the result of a lack of preventative maintenance in this area. I'd take it as a warning.

The people (Canadian couple) I bought my car from (25 years old then, 32 now) had had it dealer-maintained by the book right up to the point where I bought it, (This must have astonished the dealer in maintenance-free Taiwan) while doing absolutely nothing about the rust that was rapidly killing it.

People are strange.

Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata

I just have trouble prioritizing repairs and, as I'm sure many are familiar, my wife doesn't like us spending money on something that's not broken.


Well, I'm not married. Maybe this is one of the reasons why, because this is something I would not put up with, though I hear it a lot.

Since, if its a shared expense, its reasonable that your wife should have some veto on expenditure decisions, (even though the stereotypical chances are she knows nothing about it and has no interest in learning) maybe it shouldn't be a shared expense.

In the unlikely event that I found myself in that situation I'd buy her out (not your wife, obviously) for half current market value, which should be relatively affordable in context.

Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata
(I pushed for one more exit and the car ended up melting rings or some awful catastrophic failure).


OK. Perhaps you wont do that again.

I've killed cars through stupidity and neglect, sometimes avoidably. Hopefully I wont do it again either, but its always been with old cars of negligable market value, so as education goes its been fairly cheap.

 

[Ifixyawata]

Originally Posted By: Ducked

Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata
(I pushed for one more exit and the car ended up melting rings or some awful catastrophic failure).


OK. Perhaps you wont do that again.

I've killed cars through stupidity and neglect, sometimes avoidably. Hopefully I wont do it again either, but its always been with old cars of negligable market value, so as education goes its been fairly cheap.


I definitely won't... however if I'm being honest I was quite tired of that car anyway and it had rust well into the door sill and even near the rear door latch striker. Not a safe vehicle, IMO.

 

[Ifixyawata]

Originally Posted By: SeaJay
Originally Posted By: exranger06

So if you like the car and want to get as many miles out of it as you can, starting fixing everything that's wrong with it.


You can obviously keep a car going forever with this approach.

But it may not always make financial sense to keep dumping money on expensive repairs. But it can be done.


It's important to note that while I do really like this car and generally even enjoy driving it, I know there were TONS of them built and I could probably pretty easily find another one, even better optioned and up to six years newere, if it came down to it. It's not a rare care by any means.

 

[Ifixyawata]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
For me the deciding factor is how I feel about the reliability of the car. I need a car that can reliably get me to work and for my interstate travel. If I feel that's in jeopardy, I'll unload the car to someone more tolerant of repairs. This is historically at the 20 year mark or 170K, whichever comes first.


Aside from the time it threw it's idler/tensioner pulley and subsequently shredded the belt, the car has been reliable as I can ask for. My work commute is also only about 15 miles so that's giving the car a pretty easy life.

 

[Ifixyawata]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

So you have to decide. Me? I will never own a new car, and not because I can't afford one, it's because I won't afford one. You may see it differently.


I subscribe to your line of thinking regarding new cars. The depreciation and being under a payment/financing are deal breakers for me. I am reasonably confident that I'll never buy a new car.

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Focus motor mounts are always bad, even if you replace with new ones, the aftermarket ones are junk. So ignore that unless the engine is flopping around.

Jack up the front end and grab the wheels and check for play. If no play, don't worry about it.

Replace the hanger for cheap.

Other than that just keep driving til it blows up.


This is mostly my plan, I think.

Originally Posted By: mclasser
My approach with my older vehicles is to keep up with fluids and safety items, like brakes, suspension, lights, etc, but not sweat the other stuff. Yeah, I've got some faded paint, oil leaks, morning belt chirp, a hanging up caliper and a finicky moonroof switch, but whatever. Being able to do some work yourself is always a plus.


I agree with this. My wife's Mountaineer is only 3 years newer but in much better condition and my wife and kids ride in it, so I try to keep it as tip-top as possible, within reason.

 

[Olas]

I stop when the cost of repairs exceeds the depreciation on a new car in its first year.

 

[28oz]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
It's different for eveyone because everyone has a different tolerance for grief and a different concept of economy.

There is no doubt that driving a used car, even one that requires regular repairs, is cheaper than a car payment that you pay every month, on top of whatever maintenance you need to do. Whether your payment is $200 or $600 a month, the most frustratingly unreliable car I've ever owned ... or heard of, for that matter ... didn't drain that steady, month in month out amount of cash.

Looking at your list I see a wild guesstimate of $1300 in parts. That's six months payments on an economy car, half of which is lost immediately to depreciation. You've owned this thing for somewhere near three years.

The math doesn't lie.

But that is not the whole equation for everyone. Some people hate working on cars ... yes, even some "car guys" hate it. Paying a shop to do work on used cars is at least twice as expensive, and if that's all, consider yourself lucky. But the numbers *still* ad up in favour of used.

And then there is the time, if there was any time, where you were stranded. Some people dislike that a lot, even though a few days worth of cab fare is nothing compared to steady car payments.

And let's not forget that it's not like a new car is always trouble-free. They aren't, actually. The issues may be minor, but the time spent in cab fare is the same, or in an uninspiring loaner from the dealer when all you want is your car back.

So you have to decide. Me? I will never own a new car, and not because I can't afford one, it's because I won't afford one. You may see it differently.


+1 This is pretty much how I do it. However, I've never had an old/used vehicle strand me. I'll happily pay for the occasional repair/maintenance than have to budget every single month for a payment.

 

[Ifixyawata]

Originally Posted By: 28oz

+1 This is pretty much how I do it. However, I've never had an old/used vehicle strand me. I'll happily pay for the occasional repair/maintenance than have to budget every single month for a payment.


I feel like I've been extremely lucky... my prior used car purchases (many before my two sig cars) were pretty disappointing, some only 'lasted' 6 months. These two, both southern cars, have been very trouble free for the last 3 years.

(I'm going to find some wood to knock on)

 

[zorobabel]

Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata

I'm not bored with the car yet but wish it had other things like a moonroof etc but again it's a a commuter car.

Ha, having a sunroof/moonroof is a deal breaker to me. I hate them.

 

[Ifixyawata]

Originally Posted By: zorobabel
Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata

I'm not bored with the car yet but wish it had other things like a moonroof etc but again it's a a commuter car.

Ha, having a sunroof/moonroof is a deal breaker to me. I hate them.


I've also never had a malfunctioning sun/moonroof...

 

[supton]

I gave up on the last one when the sum of what I wanted to do well exceed value of the car. It seemed time.

Not sure on the current fleet. The truck will likely wind up going not because of wear but because of change in needs & wants. The two Camry's will soldier on as daily drivers for a while to come I think. I think the newer Camry might not go to high age though, due to its unicorn transmission, I might elect to trade that off long before it's dead. I kinda want to keep the older Camry going, although it does nothing well it seems twice the car of the newer Camry, transmissions notwithstanding.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: supton
I gave up on the last one when the sum of what I wanted to do well exceed value of the car. It seemed time.



I think that's a common approach. Always seemed a bit arbitrary to me.

On most of my cars it would have prevented almost all maintenance activity. For example, since the current car is probably completely unsalable (but has at least 70% of what I paid for it in scrap value, probably more, especially if there's a cash-for-clunkers scheme active) when the brakes failed a few years ago I wouldn't have been able to fix them.

The last car (Ford Sierra DOHC killed by my stupidity) I made a small profit on scrapping, though I still didn't like doing it.

I'll stop when I have to.