BMW LL-17 FE+

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Do you mean LL-14 FE+ ?
When you see "FE" in a BMW spec, meaning Fuel Economy, that indicates the HTHS is in the dexos1-GF5-SN range for xw20 or xw30 oils, "2.6 to 3.1 usually.
LL-01 & LL-04 have HTHS greater than 3.4, heavier stuff meant for very specific models. Although LL-04 is still the go-to for all diesels.
BMW has been migrating to thinner oils. They use "FE" 0w20 or 0w30 in almost everything they have now. Mini too.
 
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From a past thread https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4174378/all/What_is_the_most_stringent_Eur :

Originally Posted By: BMW Release Procedures

For differentiation purposes, the oil specifications are designated according to the year in which they were first used as:
"BMW Longlife-01, -01 FE" (2001),
"BMW Longlife-04" (2004),
"BMW Longlife-12 FE" (2012)
and "BMW Longlife-14 FE+" (2014).

From a past thread https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4174378/all/What_is_the_most_stringent_Eur :

The categories "BMW Longlife-01", "BMW Longlife-01 FE" and "BMW Longlife-14 FE+" as well as "BMW Longlife-04," and "BMW Longlife-12 FE" are qualitatively comparable but differ with regard to minimum viscosity at high oil temperatures (HTHS viscosity).

BMW Longlife-01 / -01 FE / -14 FE+ oils are only suitable for gasoline engines, while BMW Longlife-04 / -12 FE oils are suitable for diesel engines with
particulate filters, due to the reduced sulphate ash content.

LL-01 (ACEA A3/B4 base) requires the N20 performance test, N20 Aeration test and N42 Valvetronic RNT test
LL-01 FE (ACEA A5/B5 base) requires all the LL-01 tests plus the N20 Fuel Economy Test and has lower limits on HTHS and specifies a minimum KV100 of 10.0 and a minimum TBN of 10.0
LL-04 (ACEA C3 base) requires the same testing as LL-01
LL-12 FE (ACEA C2 base) requires all the same tests as LL-01 FE plus the N47 AATL carbonisation test and the N47 Fuel economy test. It also has even lower limits on HTHS and requires a minimum KV100 of 8.8 and a minimum TBN of 6.0
LL-14 FE+ (ACEA A1/B1 base) requires all the same testing of LL-01 FE but at minimums of HTHS 2.6, KV 7.8 and TBN 9.5
 
Originally Posted By: supercity
Anyone have a car requiring this spec? Are there any alternatives?

You can use in any BMW gas engine LL-01 or for diesel LL-04.
Both specifications are still primary for German market.
BMW introduced FE specifications primarily for markets with stringent speed limits and a lot of city driving. Most customers of BMW's in the U.S. for example use their cars for grocery getting etc. It is status symbol, not driving symbol for them, and FE oils are actually better option for those people (90% of customers in North America).
 
I’m almost certain you can still use LL-01 or LL-01 FE oils in an LL-14 FE+ application. There’s essentially zero LL-01 FE and LL-14 FE+ aftermarket options, unfortunately.
 
I'm going to address the question asked, rather than assume the OP made a typo.

There is a BMW LL-17 FE+ spec. It is, like the LL-14 FE+ spec, 0/5W-20 only but there is a significant difference: LL-14 FE+ is a high ash spec, based on ACEA A1/B1 whereas LL-17 FE+ is mid-ash, based on ACEA C5. There are some differences in the BMW tests required to run too.

LL-17 FE+ is suitable only for Bx8 and N20 engines MY2014+.
 
Dealers are reportedly using LL-04 as LL-17 FE+ is not available. This is a departure from the LL-01 rule for gasoline BMWs.
 
Weasley,

Thanks for the informed post. Good to see real info here.

Do you know if this a worldwide spec, or is it limited to certain countries or areas?

Thanks!



Originally Posted By: weasley
I'm going to address the question asked, rather than assume the OP made a typo.

There is a BMW LL-17 FE+ spec. It is, like the LL-14 FE+ spec, 0/5W-20 only but there is a significant difference: LL-14 FE+ is a high ash spec, based on ACEA A1/B1 whereas LL-17 FE+ is mid-ash, based on ACEA C5. There are some differences in the BMW tests required to run too.

LL-17 FE+ is suitable only for Bx8 and N20 engines MY2014+.
 
Originally Posted By: supercity
Dealers are reportedly using LL-04 as LL-17 FE+ is not available. This is a departure from the LL-01 rule for gasoline BMWs.


Departure from LL-01 is in some markets (US being one of them).
 
Originally Posted By: supercity
Dealers are reportedly using LL-04 as LL-17 FE+ is not available. This is a departure from the LL-01 rule for gasoline BMWs.

LL-14FE+ already covers gasoline 0w20 BMW applications, so I don't know why a dealer in Australia (supercity's) would put in the thick LL-04 high-HTHS oil.
Alternatively, the dealer could use an LL-01FE 0w30 low-HTHS oil in gasoline engines as is being done here in the U.S. in most gasoline BMWs at the dealership.

From weasley's references:
"Use BMW Longlife-04, BMW Longlife-12 FE, BMW Longlife-17 FE+ or engine oils approved by BMW that match the identical specifications only." --- which puts LL-17FE+ in future diesels in the U.S. Other parts of the world that have low-sulphur gasoline can use it in their gasoline engines. The U.S. is supposed to be transitioning to low-sulphur gasoline soon, happening now I guess.

ACEA C5 introduced
With engine and motor oil development during recent years there was a need for an aftertreatment compatible specification that covers the new 0W20 and 5W20 oils. These oils typically have HTHS viscosites below 2.9 mPa*s so the C1 - C4 categories were unsuitable. C5 requires a mid-SAPS oil - since it has the same SAPS limits as C2 and C3 - but a HTHS viscosity between 2.6 and 2.9 mPa*s. Fuel economy-wise C5 demands 2% better fuel economy than C3.


--------------------------------
BMW Longlife-98 (BMW LL-98)
Special long-life engine oil, approved by BMW. Also meets ACEA A3/B3, API SJ/CD, EC SAE 5W-40. Usually required for BMWs manufactured before MY 2002. Obsolete since 2009.
BMW Longlife-01 (BMW LL-01)
Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Product meets ACEA A3/B3 and API: SJ/CD EC-II. Usually required for BMWs built after MY 2002. Can also be used where a BMW Longlife-98 oil is recommended.
BMW Longlife-01 FE (BMW LL-01 FE)
Fully synthetic long-life oil with fuel economy properties. Oils meeting this specifications must have a low HTHS viscosity to meet the manufacturer's fuel economy requirements. These oils are only suitable for the following engines: N1x, N2x, N54, N55, N63, N74.
BMW Longlife-04 (BMW LL-04)
Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Viscosities are SAE 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40. Usually required for BMWs equipped with a diesel particulate filter (DPF). Can also be used where a BMW Longlife-98 or BMW Longlife-01 oil is recommended.
BMW Longlife-12 (BMW LL-12)
Special motor oil for certain approved gasoline engines and the following diesel engines only: Nx7K1, Nx7U1, Nx7O1 from model year 2013. Not suitable for engines with 2 or 3 turbos.
BMW Longlife-14+ (BMW LL-14+)
Special motor oil for the following gasoline engines only: N20, Bx8 from model year 2014. Not allowed for diesel engines.
 
Sounds like LL-14 FE+ is the new LL-01 and LL-17 FE+ is the new LL-04.

LL-01 FE never had a chance!
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies


Originally Posted By: supercity
Dealers are reportedly using LL-04 as LL-17 FE+ is not available. This is a departure from the LL-01 rule for gasoline BMWs.

LL-14FE+ already covers gasoline 0w20 BMW applications, so I don't know why a dealer in Australia (supercity's) would put in the thick LL-04 high-HTHS oil.
Alternatively, the dealer could use an LL-01FE 0w30 low-HTHS oil in gasoline engines as is being done here in the U.S. in most gasoline BMWs at the dealership.

From weasley's references:
"Use BMW Longlife-04, BMW Longlife-12 FE, BMW Longlife-17 FE+ or engine oils approved by BMW that match the identical specifications only." --- which puts LL-17FE+ in future diesels in the U.S. Other parts of the world that have low-sulphur gasoline can use it in their gasoline engines. The U.S. is supposed to be transitioning to low-sulphur gasoline soon, happening now I guess.

ACEA C5 introduced
With engine and motor oil development during recent years there was a need for an aftertreatment compatible specification that covers the new 0W20 and 5W20 oils. These oils typically have HTHS viscosites below 2.9 mPa*s so the C1 - C4 categories were unsuitable. C5 requires a mid-SAPS oil - since it has the same SAPS limits as C2 and C3 - but a HTHS viscosity between 2.6 and 2.9 mPa*s. Fuel economy-wise C5 demands 2% better fuel economy than C3.


--------------------------------
BMW Longlife-98 (BMW LL-98)
Special long-life engine oil, approved by BMW. Also meets ACEA A3/B3, API SJ/CD, EC SAE 5W-40. Usually required for BMWs manufactured before MY 2002. Obsolete since 2009.
BMW Longlife-01 (BMW LL-01)
Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Product meets ACEA A3/B3 and API: SJ/CD EC-II. Usually required for BMWs built after MY 2002. Can also be used where a BMW Longlife-98 oil is recommended.
BMW Longlife-01 FE (BMW LL-01 FE)
Fully synthetic long-life oil with fuel economy properties. Oils meeting this specifications must have a low HTHS viscosity to meet the manufacturer's fuel economy requirements. These oils are only suitable for the following engines: N1x, N2x, N54, N55, N63, N74.
BMW Longlife-04 (BMW LL-04)
Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Viscosities are SAE 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40. Usually required for BMWs equipped with a diesel particulate filter (DPF). Can also be used where a BMW Longlife-98 or BMW Longlife-01 oil is recommended.
BMW Longlife-12 (BMW LL-12)
Special motor oil for certain approved gasoline engines and the following diesel engines only: Nx7K1, Nx7U1, Nx7O1 from model year 2013. Not suitable for engines with 2 or 3 turbos.
BMW Longlife-14+ (BMW LL-14+)
Special motor oil for the following gasoline engines only: N20, Bx8 from model year 2014. Not allowed for diesel engines.

All new BMW engines are approved for HTHS 3.5 or higher.
LL-12, 14 and 17 are used in some markets.
B38, 38, 58 engines are approved for LL-01 and LL04 oils.
 
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