Napa Platinum 4100290 - updated PF64 replacement

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Patman
I bet they will probably give it a completely new part number just like they've done with these new Wix and NAPA offerings with the 22psi bypass.


Definately, putting the same p/n on two different designs (ie, different bypass valve settings) is breaking a major configuration management rule.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
This Boss might be a good choice instead of a Wix or Wix XP or Napa equivalents. XP/Platinums have poor efficiency. The Boss isn't as good as an Ultra, but it should be sturdy enough at least. Bosses have around 90% at 20 microns or so from what little info is available on bitog about it. Not stellar great like Ultra, but better than XP-Platinums...


I've posted a few times what a phone call to Purolator revealed. They said the Boss was 99% at 40 microns. I think that would probably equate to quite a bit less than 90% at 20 microns. The Purolator One is still their most efficient filter which is 99% at 20 microns.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Patman
I bet they will probably give it a completely new part number just like they've done with these new Wix and NAPA offerings with the 22psi bypass.
Definately, putting the same p/n on two different designs (ie, different bypass valve settings) is breaking a major configuration management rule.
They might not change it if they consider the new 22 psi spring modulus to be applicable to non-GM vehicles too, like Fords. In other words, if 22 psi is the new normal, and works well on Fords that usually get 13 psi.
For example, if they change the filter media, or add a silicone ADBV instead of nitrile, they have changed the design without the need for "configuration management" part # changes.

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted By: JC1
Originally Posted By: JustinH
What on earth vehicle takes a $13 filter, or a $27 filter?

Is it some kind of a dump truck, or a mercedes SUV?


IMO it's a rip off. Like Fram Ultra's up here in Canada. At Canadian Tire they want about $13-17 per filter when not on sale. I bought a few from Rockauto recently. Paid around $9 and ordered 6 filters so shipping is under $2 per filter.

You need to be educated about prices and how to reduce filter prices.


I was just at Canadian tire and the Fram ultra is on sale for am amazing price of $19.99. the fram extra guard was on sale for $9.99.

 

[AnthemBassMan]

Quote:
I was just at Canadian tire and the Fram ultra is on sale for am amazing price of $19.99. the fram extra guard was on sale for $9.99.



That’s insane! I can go into just about any Walmart and get the FRAM Ultra filter for both of my cars for $8.97/US.

L8R
Matt

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Patman
I bet they will probably give it a completely new part number just like they've done with these new Wix and NAPA offerings with the 22psi bypass.
Definately, putting the same p/n on two different designs (ie, different bypass valve settings) is breaking a major configuration management rule.
They might not change it if they consider the new 22 psi spring modulus to be applicable to non-GM vehicles too, like Fords. In other words, if 22 psi is the new normal, and works well on Fords that usually get 13 psi.
For example, if they change the filter media, or add a silicone ADBV instead of nitrile, they have changed the design without the need for "configuration management" part # changes.


I agree, If they made the changes you described, and didn't make those changes only for a specific subset of vehicle application, then they wouldn't change the p/n. Configuration management is pretty minimal in the auto world. They don't want to pay to update catalogs, etc and don't want to confuse customers if they can avoid it.

In the aerospace world, any change that effects form, fit or function (FFF) would require a p/n change or dash number to signify a FFF change. A bypass valve with a higher setting or different efficiency in media would be a functional change in that case.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: JC1
Originally Posted By: JC1
Originally Posted By: JustinH
What on earth vehicle takes a $13 filter, or a $27 filter?

Is it some kind of a dump truck, or a mercedes SUV?


IMO it's a rip off. Like Fram Ultra's up here in Canada. At Canadian Tire they want about $13-17 per filter when not on sale. I bought a few from Rockauto recently. Paid around $9 and ordered 6 filters so shipping is under $2 per filter.

You need to be educated about prices and how to reduce filter prices.


I was just at Canadian tire and the Fram ultra is on sale for am amazing price of $19.99. the fram extra guard was on sale for $9.99.



Strange.. the regular price is about $16. I got them for around $12 recently on sale.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en//pdp/fram-ultra-synthetic-oil-filter-0171844p.html

 

[Patman]

I also just picked up a Fram Ultra on sale at Canadian Tire a few days ago and it was just over $12.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

I don't get it......Why are things so darn expensive in Canada? You're just across the border....I mean, you're even land connected in most areas, right?

 

[Snagglefoot]

Firstly, that filter is $12 in Canadian dollars, or $8.40 US, but yes, the retailers here charge too much. Things really got hot under the collar when the Canadian dollar was worth more than the US dollar back in 2008 and we were still paying more than the US price. I better stop. Don’t want to get shut down. Thanks for asking.

 

[Patman]

We definitely pay more for a lot of things, however as shown above, when you factor in the difference of the dollar some things here in Canada are the same or less.

But I still like to make trips across the border periodically. My wife and I are going to Niagara Falls NY on Sunday and even just by filling up the Corvette with gas that more than pays for the cost of the 2 hour round trip. (if I put in 15 gallons of fuel it costs me $25 less in NY than back home) And when we go to Walmart the amount we save there also makes the trip worthwhile (for instance a jug of milk there is $1.77 vs $6 back home, so we'll buy two of those) On these trips I usually buy oil and filters but I'm stocked up for now thanks to some good sales up here recently. I will buy another bottle of Meguiars Ultimate Quik Detailer though, it's $8.39 at Target, vs $14 CDN here at home.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Patman
We definitely pay more for a lot of things, however as shown above, when you factor in the difference of the dollar some things here in Canada are the same or less.

But I still like to make trips across the border periodically. My wife and I are going to Niagara Falls NY on Sunday and even just by filling up the Corvette with gas that more than pays for the cost of the 2 hour round trip. (if I put in 15 gallons of fuel it costs me $25 less in NY than back home) And when we go to Walmart the amount we save there also makes the trip worthwhile (for instance a jug of milk there is $1.77 vs $6 back home, so we'll buy two of those) On these trips I usually buy oil and filters but I'm stocked up for now thanks to some good sales up here recently. I will buy another bottle of Meguiars Ultimate Quik Detailer though, it's $8.39 at Target, vs $14 CDN here at home.

Did you, or another Canadian member mention that you have to pay a toll to cross? I thought it was just a border guard. Do the border guards look for contraband? Such as, the items you purchase from WM?

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Patman
We definitely pay more for a lot of things, however as shown above, when you factor in the difference of the dollar some things here in Canada are the same or less.

But I still like to make trips across the border periodically. My wife and I are going to Niagara Falls NY on Sunday and even just by filling up the Corvette with gas that more than pays for the cost of the 2 hour round trip. (if I put in 15 gallons of fuel it costs me $25 less in NY than back home) And when we go to Walmart the amount we save there also makes the trip worthwhile (for instance a jug of milk there is $1.77 vs $6 back home, so we'll buy two of those) On these trips I usually buy oil and filters but I'm stocked up for now thanks to some good sales up here recently. I will buy another bottle of Meguiars Ultimate Quik Detailer though, it's $8.39 at Target, vs $14 CDN here at home.

Did you, or another Canadian member mention that you have to pay a toll to cross? I thought it was just a border guard. Do the border guards look for contraband? Such as, the items you purchase from WM?

Much more involved than you think. You have a border agent that you have to declare everything to, then head inside and pay your good ol' canadian taxes on everything you bought, and sometimes duty too...

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Patman
We definitely pay more for a lot of things, however as shown above, when you factor in the difference of the dollar some things here in Canada are the same or less.

But I still like to make trips across the border periodically. My wife and I are going to Niagara Falls NY on Sunday and even just by filling up the Corvette with gas that more than pays for the cost of the 2 hour round trip. (if I put in 15 gallons of fuel it costs me $25 less in NY than back home) And when we go to Walmart the amount we save there also makes the trip worthwhile (for instance a jug of milk there is $1.77 vs $6 back home, so we'll buy two of those) On these trips I usually buy oil and filters but I'm stocked up for now thanks to some good sales up here recently. I will buy another bottle of Meguiars Ultimate Quik Detailer though, it's $8.39 at Target, vs $14 CDN here at home.

Did you, or another Canadian member mention that you have to pay a toll to cross? I thought it was just a border guard. Do the border guards look for contraband? Such as, the items you purchase from WM?

Much more involved than you think. You have a border agent that you have to declare everything to, then head inside and pay your good ol' canadian taxes on everything you bought, and sometimes duty too...

I was just reading on GOOGLE that anything $60 or less can be brought back to Canada without paying taxes. Also, a lot of other things for either nationality. Very interesting to read.
I read that when you are coming into the US from Mexico, the border guards think 90% of the time drugs are being brought in. That's scary!
Now, about the NAPA and WIX filters; I thought WIX made NAPA filters? The WIX XP-51516 currently on my trucks engine, I thought it had the thread end bypass, but it has the dome end bypass. Did it at one time have a thread end bypass? If so, why was it changed?

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: webfors
FYI, I got a message back from Motorking and it appears Fram is going to release an Ultra with the 22psi spec for this application 'soon'. I responded asking for more details on the timeline.

Actually, I think Fram will not have to give us new part numbers, but the existence of an Ultra version of their PH12060 will mean it has the 22 psi bypass we want, just like the lowly PH12060 already does, since there currently is no "XG12060", XG meaning Ultra of course.


I think the "19-25 psi" bypass stated is really the same as saying "22 psi" since it is indicating the bypass valve spring begins to open at 19 psi and is fully open at 25 psi.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

Did you, or another Canadian member mention that you have to pay a toll to cross? I thought it was just a border guard. Do the border guards look for contraband? Such as, the items you purchase from WM?

There is a $4 or $5 charge coming back to Canada on the bridge, but not going into the US. On both ways across the border you need to stop and talk to the border guard but it's not all that bad. They usually just ask where I'm heading and for how long, and the purpose of the trip, and if I have anything to declare, and within 20-30 seconds they let me go. Coming back home they always ask what I purchased and I'm always honest and even if I'm only there for a couple of hours they will let me go without paying any duty if it's just $100-200 worth of stuff. Once we bought $300 worth of stuff on a short trip and they did make us pay duty but that's the only time in recent memory that's happened.

I know people that live near the border that will go across once a week to buy their groceries and fill up their car with gas and they don't have any problems doing this (especially if they have a Nexus pass)

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies

Actually, I think Fram will not have to give us new part numbers, but the existence of an Ultra version of their PH12060 will mean it has the 22 psi bypass we want, just like the lowly PH12060 already does, since there currently is no "XG12060", XG meaning Ultra of course.



Motorking confirmed for me that the new Ultra filter will be the XG12060

 

[RD_3]

FWIW, the Wix XP equivalent is now listed at the same price, $11.99. I had some O Rewards and picked up a couple yesterday.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

OK I just have to ask some questions of all the Platinum haters.

Insolubles are generally accepted as a good indicator of filtering efficiency, yes?

Platinums are generally regarded here by the filter snobs (and 4548-12 ratings) as pieces of garbage for filtering efficiency, yes?

So, please explain to me (yes this is an honest question) HOW did a Platinum give me fully HALF the insolubles of a Fram Ultra, while traveling 50% more miles over the OCI, with the same oil and usage patterns (and the Ultra was run when there were fewer miles on the vehicle)? Some of this worship of 4548-12 numbers when the empirical data conflicts with what's written on the box is honestly confusing.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
OK I just have to ask some questions of all the Platinum haters.

Insolubles are generally accepted as a good indicator of filtering efficiency, yes?

Platinums are generally regarded here by the filter snobs (and 4548-12 ratings) as pieces of garbage for filtering efficiency, yes?

So, please explain to me (yes this is an honest question) HOW did a Platinum give me fully HALF the insolubles of a Fram Ultra, while traveling 50% more miles over the OCI, with the same oil and usage patterns (and the Ultra was run when there were fewer miles on the vehicle)? Some of this worship of 4548-12 numbers when the empirical data conflicts with what's written on the box is honestly confusing.


You need an ISO Cleanliness test for more accuracy and performance comparison. I don't think a Blackstone type "insolubles" test is accurate enough to tell the whole story. Plus, did you do anything else to the car like change brand/weight of oil or change the air filter too between filters? There are all kinds of things that could change the test outcome.

http://www.precisionfiltration.com/products/iso-4406-cleanliness-code.asp

http://www.precisionfiltration.com/products/PDF/Understanding ISO Codes.pdf