'Synthetic' as the word relates to motor oil

[Hammehead]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Jooksing
I did read about that airplane fiasco. They just settle the cases and now most people never heard about it.


You mean that leaded aviation gasoline was not compatible with synthetic oils?


That was PAO problem with lead sludge, because PAO molecules doesn´t have enough branch in its molecules to cope with lead dispersancy and suspension, so it would deposit in engine internals leading to problems.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: sloinker
If you are led to believe that you are buying something of inherent value but something else is actually sold to you, then I consider it bait and switch. PAO's and ester based oils have inherent advantages over class III oils and cost more to produce. When the manufacturer infers you are buying these more costly ingredients due to labeling and marketing then you are being ripped off. That being said, any oil that meets the specifications of the manufacturer are probably going to serve you well...


It is not bait and switch, it is Marketing. You may infer something not stated or you let your imagination go beyond the Marketing text/labeling.

We had a similar discussion about Redline base oils. E.g., what was actually stated in the advertising and what was Inferred from their advertising. Too many people read into (or wanted to read into) what was NOT there.

And that's one of the problems. You must educate yourself so that you can discern fact from advertising Hype, and that was one of the original goals of BITOG back in 2001.

 

[4WD]

Not a what?

 

[4WD]

By this alone … this could go on forever, but changes nothing:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_synthesis

 

[Uregina09]

Geez....having a bad day?

Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: JAG
Thank you jooksing. MPT makes some interesting oils. It’s a good article on the basics of motor oil. Anyone that says who cares about it should keep it to himself and question why he is in this forum.


Anyone that rrally gives a (edit-mod) wouldn't ask if M1 is a synthetic. How about you keep your "opinion" to yourself. Thanks

 

[4WD]

What is the end game here? Some are tired of it? Some can’t leave it alone. Some use it to annoy others.
Some just think every lube has a singular base oil. What are the Tribol Leaders looking for.
Would something like this SHC business make more sense for the USA:

 

[wemay]

https://allprocars.wordpress.com/category/performance-products/

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Would something like this SHC business make more sense for the USA:

I'd agree, but we do see some of that wording used carelessly, so what can be done?

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: wemay
https://allprocars.wordpress.com/category/performance-products/


AWESOME! I've been looking for something like this for a while!

 

[4WD]

Well … as you indicated earlier … these are high spec lubes and they are at a decent price point … but they are a bit different from both dino and PAO/ester/AN …
Guess in reality this Tribol community worries about it a thousand times more than the average Joe (just not Son of)

 

[Jooksing]

Can you point me to any chart that list common brands and base oils groups. TIA

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Jooksing
Can you point me to any chart that list common brands and base oils groups. TIA
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4720929/Group_oil_listing#Post4720929

 

[Jooksing]

TY Quattro Pete. MolaKule burst my bubble.. I guess that is a good thing.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Jooksing
Interesting read for me as I have several years of BITOG to catch up on.
I was wondering why some say that M1 is not really a Synthetic and found this.

https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-02/synthetic-word-relates-motor-oil




Quote:
Unfortunately, manufacturers and marketers of synthetic motor oils can be less than forthcoming with information regarding the types of base stocks and additives used in their product formulas.


Duh! A company's formulae falls under trade secret laws and it's the company's proprietary property, or "Intellectual Property."


Quote:
...These tests are reliable indicators of the type and the quality of base stocks used in any motor oil. Unlike more traditional tests, such as viscosity index and flash point, which can be altered through the use of viscosity modifiers and other additives (short term modifications that show their weaknesses under performance testing), the Noack volatility and HTHS tests show the true capability or weakness of the base stocks when it is most important: under stressful, high-heat conditions. Obtaining the information may be difficult, however, since companies often do not publish all relevant testing information on their websites — sometimes none at all — and most consumers consider the tests to be prohibitively expensive to perform independently.



Ummm, unless you know the proportions and Group types you cannot determine the base oil(s).

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: wemay




This chart is not accurate.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: Hammehead

That was PAO problem with lead sludge, because PAO molecules doesn´t have enough branch in its molecules to cope with lead dispersancy and suspension, so it would deposit in engine internals leading to problems.


True...
I recall when synthetic Mobil AV1 was withdrawn from the market in 1994
because so many engines were fouled by lead sludge deposits... thankfully
I don't recall of any case of in-flight engine failure attributed to AV1.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Hammehead

That was PAO problem with lead sludge, because PAO molecules doesn´t have enough branch in its molecules to cope with lead dispersancy and suspension, so it would deposit in engine internals leading to problems.

True...
I recall when synthetic Mobil AV1 was withdrawn from the market in 1994
because so many engines were fouled by lead sludge deposits... thankfully
I don't recall of any case of in-flight engine failure attributed to AV1.

ExxonMobil (or whatever it was exactly then) could have reformulated the oil to handle the lead, but by then it was too late and the damage (both literally and to their marketing) was done by then. It's not an unknown science to be able to tolerate lead in a PAO oil.

As with all things GA it will be a cold day in heck before an all-synthetic oil is used again although semi-synthetics do exist. Although nothing is quite as backwards as GA, sometimes they have their reasons.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: sloinker
If you are led to believe that you are buying something of inherent value but something else is actually sold to you, then I consider it bait and switch. PAO's and ester based oils have inherent advantages over class III oils and cost more to produce. When the manufacturer infers you are buying these more costly ingredients due to labeling and marketing then you are being ripped off. That being said, any oil that meets the specifications of the manufacturer are probably going to serve you well...


It is not bait and switch, it is Marketing. You may infer something not stated or you let your imagination go beyond the Marketing text/labeling.

We had a similar discussion about Redline base oils. E.g., what was actually stated in the advertising and what was Inferred from their advertising. Too many people read into (or wanted to read into) what was NOT there.

And that's one of the problems. You must educate yourself so that you can discern fact from advertising Hype, and that was one of the original goals of BITOG back in 2001.

I think there have been similar discussions about Motul 300V. Motul's current web site states "100% synthetic racing motor oil based on ESTER Core® technology". Looking at the picture of the can on their web site it states "100% Synthetic Ester Core".

I'm not sure of the verbiage before Ester Core, but there were people on here at the time that stated that Motul claimed to be "100% Ester", although I never saw that anyone was able to provide evidence that Motul made that claim.

 

[littleant]

Just my opinion. After reading so many uoa on this site I do not see where Group IV and V oil's do better in the wear department. There is a recent red line uoa that does not look as good as a group 3 There are many uoa of group 3 doing a lot better. Back in the sixties many engines would go 200,000 miles on conventional oil. It was all about how well the car was maintained. IMHO at the end of the day any top tier group 3 with a good filter and good mantinace will work. Oh yea also reading all the great info on bitog.

 

[RTexasF]

Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Having a bad day there, Adam? Tomorrow is another day, and it'll be better. Hang in there.


Im totally done here. No one gives a (edit - mod) at all. Posting stupid questions about syn vs conventional makes me sick

I am leaving this site finally. Wont miss anyone or anything about this place either


Just like the Hollywood folks moving to Canada.......They are still here and still run their mouths.