Subaru/Toyota new plug in hybrid.

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Awd hybrids make a ton of sense to me. Spread the systems out, bias braking differently, etc. hope it works out.
 
Since the Subaru layout is longitudinal, I think Toyota via Subaru has let the cat out of the bag about a Lexus PHEV - drop the Subaru-specific transfer assembly and front diff and it can be used in a RWD application *cough*Lexus*cough*.

It doesn't make sense for Subaru to merely sell a Prius in drag. They don't want a repeat of the Saab debacle.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I’ll eat my hat if Subaru offers a plug-in hybrid this year in the States.

Can you post a video of that on-line please? Thanks.
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As much as I hate the idea and know that electrifying cars with today's battery technologies is only pleasing to lawmakers and those with delusions (kinda encompasses the first group already
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), an electric-motor-driven AWD actually makes sense for off-roading, since all that torque is available at zero RPM, which should make it great on rocky trails and low-speed hillclimbs. Now they just need to make sure the electric motors are actually big enough to be worthwhile.
 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
an electric-motor-driven AWD actually makes sense for off-roading, since all that torque is available at zero RPM, which should make it great on rocky trails and low-speed hillclimbs. Now they just need to make sure the electric motors are actually big enough to be worthwhile.

Toyota does offer a "AWD" hybrid system called AWD-i that made its debut on the Lexus RXh/Highlander Hybrid but there is a warning it's only there to assist in low-traction situations like snowy/icy roads and should not be used for off-road driving. The same system is used in the RAV4 Hybrid/NXh. Subaru ain't gonna spring for part-time AWD. Rumor in Japan said the Prius alpha(Prius V over here) was to get AWD-i.

The Lexus LS600hL/LS500h do offer a true AWD system with a Torsen-based transfer case and front diff. More than likely, it will be based off the Lexus "performance" AWD setup but with tighter integration of the transfer case and front diff - the latest Lexus RWD/rear-biased AWD setup also has a 4-speed automatic geartrain as well, Toyota calls it a Multi-Stage Hybrid System.
 
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Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I’ll eat my hat if Subaru offers a plug-in hybrid this year in the States.

Can you post a video of that on-line please? Thanks.
lol.gif



I probably should have researched whether edible hats are as prevalent as edible skivvies before I posted that!
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I’ll eat my hat if Subaru offers a plug-in hybrid this year in the States.



Seems like their core customers (greenies, eco-conscious, outdoorsy) are ideal for this type of vehicle.

Start looking for a hat.....
 
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Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I’ll eat my hat if Subaru offers a plug-in hybrid this year in the States.



Seems like their core customers (greenies, eco-conscious, outdoorsy) are ideal for this type of vehicle.

Start looking for a hat.....


Ummm, us Subarubes are pretentious urbanites who want to SEEM outdoorsy, thank you very much!

Seriously, I’m not sure that Subaru is catering to the green man group. They’ve had one VERY mild hybrid and it tanked. A serious Prius-like hybrid, with real AWD, would sell like hot cakes, however. It would need to have gas mileage between the current Subaru model (whatever platform they decide to use) and a Prius, and equivalent Subaru AWD. I’m not sure a FWD boxer with a rear motor would cut it, for instance.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool


Ummm, us Subarubes are pretentious urbanites who want to SEEM outdoorsy, thank you very much!

Seriously, I’m not sure that Subaru is catering to the green man group. They’ve had one VERY mild hybrid and it tanked.


A friend said unless Subaru comes out with a PHEV, they're buying a Chevy Bolt.

The XV Crosstrek Hybrid was even worse than Honda's "mild" hybrid Civic/Accord/Insight of the early-mid 2000s.

Toyota is taking a laisez-faire approach with Subaru - which is good since the latter isn't norm-core like a Camry or Prius. But I think Subaru should use Toyota's parts bin(and even architecture, TNGA is pretty [censored] good if it makes a Prius even slightly more exciting to drive) and ditch the Nissan/GM legacies as well as trying to be too "different".

What Subaru should do is grab the Lexus RWD-based hybrid setup, and either slap it on their new architecture or work with Toyota to adapt TNGA-L.
 
Subaru is already implementing their own global platform. So, unless they combine efforts with Toyota for the overall design of the hybrid (leaning heavily on Toyota), I don't see them utilizing Toyota's platform. Instead, they'll have designed in hybridization into the new Subaru Global Platform.

I honestly can't say how they'll implement it, but I have a sinking feeling (with no proof to back it up) that it will be Subaru-only project and it will be almost as half-arsed as the Crosstrek hybrid. I probably am (and really do hope to be proven) wrong on this, but we'll see.

//

If your friend is in CA with you, then that statement makes sense. I do not believe it would be a common sentiment among the New England folks who already own Subarus, when time to replace.

I've personally owned FWD vehicles (even after owning Subarus) and experienced good performance in the winter, utilizing proper winter tires. With that said, I guess I liked and got used to how Subarus drive and fit me, so it's now tough for me to break away again. That's not to say that I won't look elsewhere if my needs are met by another manufacturer, but I like Subarus for now.

//

I feel as if Subaru has already begun changing their designs to cater more to the masses. The Outback looks more like an SUV than a wagon, the Crosstrek looks more like a sporty wagon than a cute ute, and the Impreza looks just about like every other car on the road, if you don't know what you're looking at. The Forester is about the same as it ever was, because I feel as if it's a very popular model, even with its quirkiness. The Legacy is a plain-Jane mid-size, but even it looks pretty similar to its big brother, the Outback. Again, many non-car people would be hard pressed to ID it when compared to something like a Sonata.

I don't mind the design changes at all. All I care about is price-point and what's offered. I don't need AWD, but it is a nice-to-have feature that I've grown accustomed to and don't want to live without now. I don't mind having a slightly chintzier interior or worse fit-and-finish or a lesser-refined engine, to get the AWD, to be honest. That's probably not very common; I'm sure a lot of Subaru converts are simply swayed by the newly-designed exteriors and "SUPER AMAZING SYMMETRICAL (OMG SYMMETRICAL!!!) AWD", and, don't forget, all of the love that Subaru sponsors...

Went off a bit of a tangent there, but hopefully it all makes sense.
 
My friend is in CA. They really wanted to have a plug-in or all-electric car to take advantage of their solar system(so did my parents) but the idea of a Tesla scared them and my parents don't drive anything that doesn't have the 3 ellipses or a circle-L on the grille.

For a car with standard AWD, there is no beating a Subaru. Unless you have Audi scratch. They're got the marketing game down as well and many families in the Bay Area(a good chunk of them are in tech or young) are buying Outbacks and Foresters instead of the usual Toyota/Honda offerings. For the price, Subaru does offer a compelling value statement. Especially when you get up to the higher trim levels of the Legacy/Outback which really does feel and look more expensive than it is, my friend's '12 Forester is decent but it does feel a lot better than most recent Toyota products which I feel is even worse than GM from the 1990s.

The new Ascent might be a hit for Subaru, just when VW is moving the Atlas and the new Pilot/Highlander aren't the hits Honda and Toyota wanted them to be. However, Lexus just released the 7-passenger extended-length RX350/450h and Subaru's rationale with the Ascent was to stave off losing customers to the more boring and soccer-mommy Pilot/Highlander but people cross-shop Subies with Audi, VW and Volvo as well.
 
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Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Subaru is already implementing their own global platform. So, unless they combine efforts with Toyota for the overall design of the hybrid (leaning heavily on Toyota), I don't see them utilizing Toyota's platform. Instead, they'll have designed in hybridization into the new Subaru Global Platform.

I honestly can't say how they'll implement it, but I have a sinking feeling (with no proof to back it up) that it will be Subaru-only project and it will be almost as half-arsed as the Crosstrek hybrid. I probably am (and really do hope to be proven) wrong on this, but we'll see.


From the C&D article:

Quote:

Earlier this year, Subaru chief technical officer Takeshi Tachimori said that the automaker has “used Toyota’s technologies as much as possible” for the plug-in hybrid. From that, we’ll extrapolate that it will almost certainly borrow off-the-shelf technology from the Toyota Prius Prime. And it would be out of character for Subaru not to combine that with a version of Toyota’s E-Four all-wheel-drive system—with a third electric motor for the rear wheels—that’s offered on the Prius in Japan.


An earlier article on the PHEV:

http://autoweek.com/article/green-cars/electrify-subaru-leans-its-friends
 
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Subaru is already implementing their own global platform. So, unless they combine efforts with Toyota for the overall design of the hybrid (leaning heavily on Toyota), I don't see them utilizing Toyota's platform. Instead, they'll have designed in hybridization into the new Subaru Global Platform.

I honestly can't say how they'll implement it, but I have a sinking feeling (with no proof to back it up) that it will be Subaru-only project and it will be almost as half-arsed as the Crosstrek hybrid. I probably am (and really do hope to be proven) wrong on this, but we'll see.


From the C&D article:

Quote:

Earlier this year, Subaru chief technical officer Takeshi Tachimori said that the automaker has “used Toyota’s technologies as much as possible” for the plug-in hybrid. From that, we’ll extrapolate that it will almost certainly borrow off-the-shelf technology from the Toyota Prius Prime. And it would be out of character for Subaru not to combine that with a version of Toyota’s E-Four all-wheel-drive system—with a third electric motor for the rear wheels—that’s offered on the Prius in Japan.


An earlier article on the PHEV:

http://autoweek.com/article/green-cars/electrify-subaru-leans-its-friends


I’ve read all that, thanks blue!
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.

I guess I should have qualified it all by saying that I’m preparing myself to be majorly disappointed (like I do with the STI every year!
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) while deep down I’m secretly optimistic. Reality will likely be somewhere in between - to be trite: I expect something evolutionary (between the Crosstrek hybrid and the Prius Prime, but closer to the former), not revolutionary (35 mpg, combined/55+ empg, Forester-sized vehicle with uncompromised AWD.)
 
Gather, I'm a Cubs fan, so knowing that, this will be funnier: THIS really is the year the STI will finally get some real updates!

I see the 2020 model using the 2.4 out of the Ascent with some different cams and turbo, and at least 330HP, maybe 350. Unfortunately, IF it makes it to this update, sadly, based on all their other literature, I think this will be the last hurrah for two technologies in the STI: manual transmissions and non-hybrid drivetrains. I just really think by the time 2024 rolls around, Subaru will have mainstreamed their hybrid plan and gone to 100% CVT, based on their goals of being the "safest" manufacturer in the world due to Eyesight... which precludes manuals. I'd love to see the STI on the SGP, with 350HP/350TQ, and weigh in fully dressed under 3500lbs. WITH a 5-door model available! I'd run out today and put money down on it even if it wasn't here until 2020 if I could get all those things.

Dear Subaru Corporate: I've owned 5 Subarus, gotten my mom and several friends to Share the Love... please please give me the STI I want!
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