Oil and Fuel Recomendations for 2018 VW Golf R

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: jakeyjohn1
I think I have narrowed my choices down to Castrol 0W40 A3/B4 and Mobil 1 ESP 5W30.

I'm still looking for an oil that has:
dexos1gen2
MB 229.5
Porsche A40
BMW LL-01
VW 502 00

But I'm starting to think dexos1gen2 contradicts the others? Are these sequences published publicly? I can't find them, just lists of certified oils.

Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 has what I think are the equivalent mid-SAPS versions of all the above (please correct me if that's a bad way of thinking about these):
dexos2
MB 229.51
Porsche C30
BMW LL-04
VW 504 00

Is the dexos2 specification giving me more benefit (in terms of wear and engine longevity) than the high-SAPS versions of the others specs?

Would either dexos specification be relevant in a 2L turbo DI engine with some reports of misfires on cold starts?


Forget Dexos. It is not particularly stringent application compare to MB or BMW or VW 504.00/507.00.
Also, M1 5W30 ESP is lo-SAPS oil, not really Mid-SAPS. It ahs very low SA at 0.6.
If you choose Castrol 0W40, change it every 5 to 7.5k, and enjoy the car.
If you choose M1 5W30 ESP use it for 3K and do used oil analysis (UOA). IMO, Mobil1 5W30 ESP is the best VW504.00/507.00 oil you can find on the market. It meets ACEA C3 (and it has numerous other approvals) but also ACEA C2, which means it is fuel efficient. I actually can notice MPG increase in BMW using that compare to BMW TPT LL-04 or Valvoline 5W40 MST I used.
However, and this is BIG however, I tried M1 5W30 ESP in Tiguan I have and VW CC I had before. It did not do good in this EA888 first generation engines. TBN depleted fast and at 3K it was at 1.9. Kinematic viscosity was great, all other indicators were good, but TBN was low.
So, if you choose ESP, do 3K and send it for analysis to Blackstone so you know how it is performing.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Dang....VW has some oil-fussy engines !

VW has a variety of oil specifications, but people often use RT6 5w40 in their gasoline VW without any problem. Shell RT6 doesn't meet any of VW's unique specifications. In addition, people would use it in a non-DPF VW diesel without any problem.

Shell T6 is mediocre oil in this application. It has high NOACK, it is heavy oil, and nothing is unique about it. It is generally less sophisticated then any MB 229.5 oil.
Reason why it got traction is the fact that previous generation T6 was heavy 5W40 oil which did good with fuel dilution in EA113 engines.

 

[Hounds]

edyvw: IMHO, your advice is spot on and your patience quite apparently is without bounds.

jakeyjohn: Forgive me, sir, but I can't help but think you are overlooking the obvious in your hunt for the obscure.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
. . . Do not use additives. Use top tier gas and that is it. . . . [The] most important specification, [especially the] one you need for your vehicle (VW502.00) is MB 229.5! . . .[A]lways look for [an] oil that has all these [specifications] since each spec. brings something to the table:
MB 229.5
Porsche A40
BMW LL-01
VW 502.00
If oil meets all those spec. use it with confidence.


Castrol Edge 0W-40 is your oil. It meets all of your warranty requirements and then some. As an added benefit, it is readily available and inexpensive. The only thing I'd add to edyvw's advice is a specific recommendation WRT Shell 93 octane for your V-Dub.

 

[jakeyjohn1]

I know I can be annoying

Even if it doesn't seem like it I am taking all of your advice. I made this post to get advice but also to learn more about oil and the latter is why I have been continuing to post.

I sincerely appreciate your responses and you all have helped me learn a great deal. Searching for and reading about everything you gave me I have been able to find relevant information.

I am embarrassed to find most of what I have been asking about to have been recently discussed, but to be fair to myself I have been unable to search for a lot of it. I am finding it by manually looking back through all the posts in this sub-forum. 504 and low sulfur gas in Canada This relevant thread is only a few weeks old but I couldn't find it with google focused on this forum.

I wanted to research the 504 options because of advice I read on VW forums. While it is unclear which standards Lubrizol puts on the same scale, their relative performance tool makes the mid/lo-SAPS versions of the VW, MB, and Porsche specs look better in areas like wear, sludge, and oxidative thickening. I also keep finding threads like this one discussing the potential benefits lower-SAPS oils may have towards cleanliness in TGDI engines. Thanks to everyone's posts, here and throughout this forum, I think I have access to enough information and opinions to help me make my decision.

I'm probably choosing Castrol Edge 0W40 A3/B4.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Had to go wrong with EDGE 0W-40.

And for what it’s worth, changing the oil more frequently will have a far bigger impact on keeping the intake ports and valves clean than an expensive 504/507 oil. Certainly easy to rationalize changing EDGE 0W-40 more frequently given its price.

 

[Azoth]

Little late to the party here

Originally Posted By: jakeyjohn1

6. No known issues. Some MKVII Golf Rs have experienced a rough idle and misfires at start up. A software fix was released but no service bulletin for all vehicles to get upgraded and at least one person has had the misfires re-occur post update (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.ph...amp;p=110918761). Previous generations of my EA888 engine are known for carbon build up on intake valves and VW has a fuel additive G001 780 M3 (actually found a thread with its ingredients list on this forum: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4197203/Re:_VW_multipurpose_fuel_addit). Would it be a good idea to use this additive regularly or should I avoid mixing stuff into my gas? I'm also considering Italian tune ups prior to oil changes.


Just regarding this.. I didn't see if you got an answer... but if you are a US spec R then it's direct injection only and you won't get ANY carbon cleaning benefit on the valves whatsoever from any fuel additives.
One solution is adding a Multi-port injection kit which UM and Precision Raceworks have a kit for, but you are looking at about ~2k for that plus tuning, I'm doing that sometime.. But then you would get fuel spraying on the valves and cleaning them.
Other than that.. the only other way to prevent it is with a DI water/methanol setup and of course the good old italian tune up. And of course using a top tier gas.
But still probably want to do a carbon cleaning anyway around ~60k or so.. you can help mitigate it to a large degree but there's no getting around it completely.

(Mine is a 2016 Stage 3 R - my thread was here - https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4262782/1 ) But my engine is built and calls for a thicker oil

As for oils I've been really happy with Motul.. currently using 4100 Power 15w50. We decided I should use a 15w50 oil for my application.
I really liked the Motul 8100 X-Cess and X-clean 5w-40 too and those have the 502 cert. It's pretty cheap too
I gave Redline and Ravenol a try but was having oil consumption issues. Been really happy with the Motul. That or Mobil 1 or Liqui Moly, can't really go wrong.

 

[1JZ_E46]

The biggest thing you can do to reduce carbon buildup is to install a quality oil catch can in the PCV system. I’m sure there are a few to choose from. You’d be surprised how much oil gets caught in it.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
The biggest thing you can do to reduce carbon buildup is to install a quality oil catch can in the PCV system. I’m sure there are a few to choose from. You’d be surprised how much oil gets caught in it.

It may trap some "goo" but I have my doubts as to whether or not it helps sloe or prevent valve build up.

 

[jakeyjohn1]

Thanks for the input!

Azoth, are you recommending 60k mile intervals for valve cleaning with a MPI system (water/meth or fuel) or for stock DI?

I have considered a catch can, but I haven't decided for myself what risk I think they pose of making the situation worse. On paper its easy for me to see it as a second oil sump, but closer to your intake and with none of the protections of the crankcase PCV system, other than 'billets' Ideally it should be significantly colder than the crankcase, also acting as a cold trap? But how cold can it be in the engine bay?

 

[1JZ_E46]

It’s easentially just an air/oil separator in between the crankcase and intake manifold. I can’t see how it could make the situation worse? Depending on the placement of the can, I can see it being at least 20-25 degrees colder, allowing for oil vapor to condensate. But regardless of temp, just the extra surface area of the can internals (get a baffled one) will allow oil to precipitate out of the mist or vapor.

 

[jakeyjohn1]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
It’s easentially just an air/oil separator in between the crankcase and intake manifold. I can’t see how it could make the situation worse? Depending on the placement of the can, I can see it being at least 20-25 degrees colder, allowing for oil vapor to condensate. But regardless of temp, just the extra surface area of the can internals (get a baffled one) will allow oil to precipitate out of the mist or vapor.


The stock PCV system has an air/oil separator as well. If a catchcan with less capacity to trap oil than the crankcase air/oil separator is placed downstream from the PCV, then the engine's intake would be more exposed to the oil trapped in the catchcan than it would have been exposed to oil trapped in the crankcase. I hope that makes sense

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: jakeyjohn1
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
It’s easentially just an air/oil separator in between the crankcase and intake manifold. I can’t see how it could make the situation worse? Depending on the placement of the can, I can see it being at least 20-25 degrees colder, allowing for oil vapor to condensate. But regardless of temp, just the extra surface area of the can internals (get a baffled one) will allow oil to precipitate out of the mist or vapor.


The stock PCV system has an air/oil separator as well. If a catchcan with less capacity to trap oil than the crankcase air/oil separator is placed downstream from the PCV, then the engine's intake would be more exposed to the oil trapped in the catchcan than it would have been exposed to oil trapped in the crankcase. I hope that makes sense


I don’t quite agree with that hypothesis. A catch can placed downstream of an air/oil separator can only further remove oil from positive crankcase pressure gassed. The oil on a catch can is not evaporating. It’s far too cold for that.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
It’s easentially just an air/oil separator in between the crankcase and intake manifold. I can’t see how it could make the situation worse? Depending on the placement of the can, I can see it being at least 20-25 degrees colder, allowing for oil vapor to condensate. But regardless of temp, just the extra surface area of the can internals (get a baffled one) will allow oil to precipitate out of the mist or vapor.


You really don't want to connect the catch can output to the intake manifold, unless you install a check valve to prevent a pressurized intake manifold air to travel back through the catch can and into the valve cover.

It won't make the situation worse, unless the OP goes skiing and the catch can freezes. There is some residual moisture in the mixture.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
It’s easentially just an air/oil separator in between the crankcase and intake manifold. I can’t see how it could make the situation worse? Depending on the placement of the can, I can see it being at least 20-25 degrees colder, allowing for oil vapor to condensate. But regardless of temp, just the extra surface area of the can internals (get a baffled one) will allow oil to precipitate out of the mist or vapor.


You really don't want to connect the catch can output to the intake manifold, unless you install a check valve to prevent a pressurized intake manifold air to travel back through the catch can and into the valve cover.

It won't make the situation worse, unless the OP goes skiing and the catch can freezes. There is some residual moisture in the mixture.


I don’t know if any catch can system that replaces the PCV valve. Every kit I have seen retains the OEM functionality of the PCV system. It merely adds an “oil trap” inline between the crankcase and intake manifold.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
It’s easentially just an air/oil separator in between the crankcase and intake manifold. I can’t see how it could make the situation worse? Depending on the placement of the can, I can see it being at least 20-25 degrees colder, allowing for oil vapor to condensate. But regardless of temp, just the extra surface area of the can internals (get a baffled one) will allow oil to precipitate out of the mist or vapor.


You really don't want to connect the catch can output to the intake manifold, unless you install a check valve to prevent a pressurized intake manifold air to travel back through the catch can and into the valve cover.

It won't make the situation worse, unless the OP goes skiing and the catch can freezes. There is some residual moisture in the mixture.


The ones made specific to VW's replace the PCV assembly. Plus the factory "front" PCV (which that catch can replaces) is routed to the intake manifold, so that when pressurized, the "check valve" is controlled by a thin rubber diaphragm that is prone to tearing.

I don’t know if any catch can system that replaces the PCV valve. Every kit I have seen retains the OEM functionality of the PCV system. It merely adds an “oil trap” inline between the crankcase and intake manifold.

 

[21Rouge]

UOAs for 2018 GOLF R

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by 21Rouge
UOAs for 2018 GOLF R

Next time do TBN and TAN.

 

[TiGeo]

Tried and true VW 502.00 5W40 such as Castrol or Liquimoly will be just fine. The fuel has little to do with DI issues surrounding carbon build-up, that's more related to the oil and it's ability to not break down/evaporate.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
Tried and true VW 502.00 5W40 such as Castrol or Liquimoly will be just fine. The fuel has little to do with DI issues surrounding carbon build-up, that's more related to the oil and it's ability to not break down/evaporate.

If someone gave me Castrol 5W40, I would take it and sell it for few buck, and got anything else 502.00.

 

[TiGeo]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Tried and true VW 502.00 5W40 such as Castrol or Liquimoly will be just fine. The fuel has little to do with DI issues surrounding carbon build-up, that's more related to the oil and it's ability to not break down/evaporate.

If someone gave me Castrol 5W40, I would take it and sell it for few buck, and got anything else 502.00.


Why?