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Dexos 1 Gen 2? #4727536
04/15/18 09:24 AM
04/15/18 09:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 263
Bucks, PA
zfasts03 Offline OP
zfasts03  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 263
Bucks, PA
I understand the new formulation benefits of Dexos 1 Gen 2 by the oil companies to minimized LSPI events is better for engines that are Direct Injected, especially turbo direct injected.

BUT! Is this new formulation also better for port injected engines (non-direct injected)? Not pre-ignition wise, but lubrication wise.

It seems as with some of the newest formulations, some have mentioned a cheapened/lesser product with shearing/viscosity loss, low temp pour point is not as good, etc. Possibly due to the new GTL base stocks?


Last edited by zfasts03; 04/15/18 09:25 AM.

03 Corvette Z06
-Amsoil 5w-30 SS
07 Honda Accord 2.4L
-Amsoil 5w-20 SS
16 Suburban 5.3L
-M1 0w-20, XG10575
18 4Runner TRD Off Road
- Factory Fill
Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03] #4727554
04/15/18 09:37 AM
04/15/18 09:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 22,162
Colorado Springs
Drew99GT Offline
Drew99GT  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 22,162
Colorado Springs
Thanks for asking this question! I've been wanting to ask this as well. The reduction in calcium as me worried, but I guess it's not a big deal since all companies are adopting this standard it seems. There isn't really a choice now to have a synthetic GF-5 oil that is not Dexos 1 Gen 2

Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03] #4727559
04/15/18 09:40 AM
04/15/18 09:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,433
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,433
Soviet State of Washington
The reduction in calcium is usually offset by increases in other detergent components, magnesium being one.


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03] #4727562
04/15/18 09:41 AM
04/15/18 09:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,915
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,915
MA, Mittelfranken.de
GM in Europe spec Dexos 2 for all gas and light diesel engines even in climates similar to the the US north east even for the same engines available in US. I think its a fair question to ask why.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: PimTac] #4727564
04/15/18 09:46 AM
04/15/18 09:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,326
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Online content
Snagglefoot  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,326
SE British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The reduction in calcium is usually offset by increases in other detergent components, magnesium being one.



Yes, the D1G2 seem to have pretty good magnesium and molybdenum numbers.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: Snagglefoot] #4727572
04/15/18 09:52 AM
04/15/18 09:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,326
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Online content
Snagglefoot  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,326
SE British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The reduction in calcium is usually offset by increases in other detergent components, magnesium being one.



Yes, the D1G2 seem to have pretty good magnesium and molybdenum numbers.


If anyone has seen problems with UOA’s from D1G2 oils, please post them because so far I have not seen any problems.

Last edited by Snagglefoot; 04/15/18 09:53 AM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03] #4727585
04/15/18 10:00 AM
04/15/18 10:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,844
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,844
Idaho
Originally Posted By: zfasts03
I understand the new formulation benefits of Dexos 1 Gen 2 by the oil companies to minimized LSPI events is better for engines that are Direct Injected, especially turbo direct injected.

BUT! Is this new formulation also better for port injected engines (non-direct injected)? Not pre-ignition wise, but lubrication wise.

It seems as with some of the newest formulations, some have mentioned a cheapened/lesser product with shearing/viscosity loss, low temp pour point is not as good, etc. Possibly due to the new GTL base stocks?

If you look up what the new oils need to meet how can some say they are a in anyway a lesser oil?


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: Snagglefoot] #4727588
04/15/18 10:03 AM
04/15/18 10:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,433
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,433
Soviet State of Washington
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The reduction in calcium is usually offset by increases in other detergent components, magnesium being one.



Yes, the D1G2 seem to have pretty good magnesium and molybdenum numbers.


If anyone has seen problems with UOA’s from D1G2 oils, please post them because so far I have not seen any problems.




I don’t think we would be able to trace any issue back to the oil itself unless we see a wider trend like older cars sludging up. Even then it would be difficult to blame the oil as there are too many variables to consider.

I for one think the move has improved the oils. The idea that more of something means it is better is a misnomer. We see lots of uoa’s here from oils with hardly any add pack yet the numbers are excellent.


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03] #4727632
04/15/18 10:40 AM
04/15/18 10:40 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 257
So. Calif.
turnbowm Offline
turnbowm  Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 257
So. Calif.
The Dexos1 Gen2 spec addresses timing chain wear as well as LSPI. Something to consider even for older port-injected engines.


2015 Kia Optima EX 2.4L GDI
2015 Chevy Volt
Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03] #4727637
04/15/18 10:46 AM
04/15/18 10:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 127
Alberta
BigJakeChevy Offline
BigJakeChevy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 127
Alberta
My concerns with these new formulations are the low levels of zddp and in my application 5w30 they're so thin now! Is there any chance that in an older V8 like my gm 5.3 will i see increased wear due to the lower viscosity?


2007 Silverado Classic 5.3L PPPP 10w30 455,000kms
Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03] #4727638
04/15/18 10:48 AM
04/15/18 10:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,972
Great White North.. eh
webfors Offline
webfors  Offline
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,972
Great White North.. eh
It would be good to know the hths specs between old D1 and new D1G2 formulations. For timing chain wear I would assume a higher hths.


17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w20, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Rotella T6 5w40, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30
Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03] #4727650
04/15/18 10:58 AM
04/15/18 10:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,433
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,433
Soviet State of Washington
Valvoline’s reformulation bumped their HTHS on the 0w20 from 2.6 to 2.7. That may not seem like much but it’s still a 4-5% increase which is something. This is one example but I suspect we may see similar results among the other companies as well.

The other standout change is the use of titanium in the add pack.


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: turnbowm] #4727689
04/15/18 11:28 AM
04/15/18 11:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
.
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
The Dexos1 Gen2 spec addresses timing chain wear as well as LSPI. Something to consider even for older port-injected engines.


I think part of the reason for added timing chain wear protection is the soot all DI engines produce that winds up in sump oil. Still, added protection can’t be a bad thing.

Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: Danh] #4727692
04/15/18 11:30 AM
04/15/18 11:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,972
Great White North.. eh
webfors Offline
webfors  Offline
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,972
Great White North.. eh
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
The Dexos1 Gen2 spec addresses timing chain wear as well as LSPI. Something to consider even for older port-injected engines.


I think part of the reason for added timing chain wear protection is the soot all DI engines produce that winds up in sump oil. Still, added protection can’t be a bad thing.


Good argument for more frequent OCIs.


17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w20, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Rotella T6 5w40, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30
Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: Danh] #4727769
04/15/18 12:39 PM
04/15/18 12:39 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,347
Winchester, Indiana
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,347
Winchester, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Danh
I think part of the reason for added timing chain wear protection is the soot all DI engines produce that winds up in sump oil.


Do you have any UOAs that back up that assumption? Soot typically is something a diesel engine deals with. Fuel dilution in T/GDI, sure, but no soot. I think most of the reason for timing chain wear is the low HTHS oils more than anything- there are millions of SBCs/BBCs/SBFs running around for hundreds of millions of miles without the issues seen on timing chains on today's new cars. Chains are essentially still the same as they ever have been, the only real thing to change in that ecosystem is the oil lubricating the whole mess.

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