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#4727536 - 04/15/18 09:24 AM Dexos 1 Gen 2?
zfasts03 Offline


Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 259
Loc: Bucks, PA
I understand the new formulation benefits of Dexos 1 Gen 2 by the oil companies to minimized LSPI events is better for engines that are Direct Injected, especially turbo direct injected.

BUT! Is this new formulation also better for port injected engines (non-direct injected)? Not pre-ignition wise, but lubrication wise.

It seems as with some of the newest formulations, some have mentioned a cheapened/lesser product with shearing/viscosity loss, low temp pour point is not as good, etc. Possibly due to the new GTL base stocks?



Edited by zfasts03 (04/15/18 09:25 AM)
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-M1 0w-20, XG10575
18 4Runner TRD Off Road
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#4727554 - 04/15/18 09:37 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03]
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 22145
Loc: Colorado Springs
Thanks for asking this question! I've been wanting to ask this as well. The reduction in calcium as me worried, but I guess it's not a big deal since all companies are adopting this standard it seems. There isn't really a choice now to have a synthetic GF-5 oil that is not Dexos 1 Gen 2

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#4727559 - 04/15/18 09:40 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4628
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
The reduction in calcium is usually offset by increases in other detergent components, magnesium being one.
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#4727562 - 04/15/18 09:41 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 19314
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
GM in Europe spec Dexos 2 for all gas and light diesel engines even in climates similar to the the US north east even for the same engines available in US. I think its a fair question to ask why.
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#4727564 - 04/15/18 09:46 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: PimTac]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1909
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The reduction in calcium is usually offset by increases in other detergent components, magnesium being one.



Yes, the D1G2 seem to have pretty good magnesium and molybdenum numbers.

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#4727572 - 04/15/18 09:52 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: Snagglefoot]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1909
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The reduction in calcium is usually offset by increases in other detergent components, magnesium being one.



Yes, the D1G2 seem to have pretty good magnesium and molybdenum numbers.


If anyone has seen problems with UOA’s from D1G2 oils, please post them because so far I have not seen any problems.


Edited by Snagglefoot (04/15/18 09:53 AM)

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#4727585 - 04/15/18 10:00 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11230
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: zfasts03
I understand the new formulation benefits of Dexos 1 Gen 2 by the oil companies to minimized LSPI events is better for engines that are Direct Injected, especially turbo direct injected.

BUT! Is this new formulation also better for port injected engines (non-direct injected)? Not pre-ignition wise, but lubrication wise.

It seems as with some of the newest formulations, some have mentioned a cheapened/lesser product with shearing/viscosity loss, low temp pour point is not as good, etc. Possibly due to the new GTL base stocks?

If you look up what the new oils need to meet how can some say they are a in anyway a lesser oil?
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#4727588 - 04/15/18 10:03 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: Snagglefoot]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4628
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The reduction in calcium is usually offset by increases in other detergent components, magnesium being one.



Yes, the D1G2 seem to have pretty good magnesium and molybdenum numbers.


If anyone has seen problems with UOA’s from D1G2 oils, please post them because so far I have not seen any problems.




I don’t think we would be able to trace any issue back to the oil itself unless we see a wider trend like older cars sludging up. Even then it would be difficult to blame the oil as there are too many variables to consider.

I for one think the move has improved the oils. The idea that more of something means it is better is a misnomer. We see lots of uoa’s here from oils with hardly any add pack yet the numbers are excellent.
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#4727632 - 04/15/18 10:40 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03]
turnbowm Offline


Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 189
Loc: So. Calif.
The Dexos1 Gen2 spec addresses timing chain wear as well as LSPI. Something to consider even for older port-injected engines.
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#4727637 - 04/15/18 10:46 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03]
BigJakeChevy Offline


Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 126
Loc: Alberta
My concerns with these new formulations are the low levels of zddp and in my application 5w30 they're so thin now! Is there any chance that in an older V8 like my gm 5.3 will i see increased wear due to the lower viscosity?
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2007 Silverado Classic 5.3L PPPP 10w30 455,000kms

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#4727638 - 04/15/18 10:48 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03]
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4955
Loc: Great White North.. eh
It would be good to know the hths specs between old D1 and new D1G2 formulations. For timing chain wear I would assume a higher hths.
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#4727650 - 04/15/18 10:58 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: zfasts03]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4628
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Valvoline’s reformulation bumped their HTHS on the 0w20 from 2.6 to 2.7. That may not seem like much but it’s still a 4-5% increase which is something. This is one example but I suspect we may see similar results among the other companies as well.

The other standout change is the use of titanium in the add pack.
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Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
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#4727689 - 04/15/18 11:28 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: turnbowm]
Danh Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1763
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
The Dexos1 Gen2 spec addresses timing chain wear as well as LSPI. Something to consider even for older port-injected engines.


I think part of the reason for added timing chain wear protection is the soot all DI engines produce that winds up in sump oil. Still, added protection can’t be a bad thing.

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#4727692 - 04/15/18 11:30 AM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: Danh]
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4955
Loc: Great White North.. eh
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
The Dexos1 Gen2 spec addresses timing chain wear as well as LSPI. Something to consider even for older port-injected engines.


I think part of the reason for added timing chain wear protection is the soot all DI engines produce that winds up in sump oil. Still, added protection can’t be a bad thing.


Good argument for more frequent OCIs.
_________________________
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Valvoline 20w50, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30

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#4727769 - 04/15/18 12:39 PM Re: Dexos 1 Gen 2? [Re: Danh]
SubieRubyRoo Offline


Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 1232
Loc: Winchester, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Danh
I think part of the reason for added timing chain wear protection is the soot all DI engines produce that winds up in sump oil.


Do you have any UOAs that back up that assumption? Soot typically is something a diesel engine deals with. Fuel dilution in T/GDI, sure, but no soot. I think most of the reason for timing chain wear is the low HTHS oils more than anything- there are millions of SBCs/BBCs/SBFs running around for hundreds of millions of miles without the issues seen on timing chains on today's new cars. Chains are essentially still the same as they ever have been, the only real thing to change in that ecosystem is the oil lubricating the whole mess.

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