Which oil for Turbo DI

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It’s coming time for the 18 Accord to get oil changed. It’s the 2.0T I will stay with 0W20 last time I checked I have not been able to find aftermarket oil filters so I will stick with Honda. I see that Mobil 1 seems to be doing a better job at fuel dilution in the 1.5T possibly due to the fact it’s lower calcium package. I hear a good amount of boron is good for it also. Maybe Castrol Edge Titanium would be another choice. I will be sending a sample off on this first change. Any other ideas?? Thanks
 
Brolly, I don't think Calcium or Boron has any effect at all on fuel dilution.
You might be thinking of LSPI, which is a particular kind of detonation, of which low-Ca does appear to be what prevents it the best, based on observing newer dexos1 Gen2 and SN+ formulas and various websites on the subject.

If you're having fuel dilution, I'd definitely go to using M1 AFE 0w30 in that, one grade up to counter it. The fuel will bring it down to a 0w20 after a few thousand miles so you'll finish on the thin side of the 0w20 kv100 range.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Brolly, I don't think Calcium or Boron has any effect at all on fuel dilution.
You might be thinking of LSPI, which is a particular kind of detonation, of which low-Ca does appear to be what prevents it the best, based on observing newer dexos1 Gen2 and SN+ formulas and various websites on the subject.

If you're having fuel dilution, I'd definitely go to using M1 AFE 0w30 in that, one grade up to counter it. The fuel will bring it down to a 0w20 after a few thousand miles so you'll finish on the thin side of the 0w20 kv100 range.


But isn’t there a connection between LSPI and fuel dilution? Maybe we should look deeper why are the 1.5T having a fuel dilution problem. Spraying extra fuel to keep it cooler and to lessen the LSPI and therefore causing oil issues or am I misunderstanding? Just a question. My guess will be this 2.0T will have fuel dilution how much is unknown. But I want to prepare for it from the start. I haven’t heard any of the Civic Type R’s having fuel dilution so maybe the Accords 2.0T won’t.
 
Turbo engines will have more blowby the piston rings due to the higher pressure. Direct injection is spraying liquid fuel directly into the piston, some of which ends up blowing by into the oil system so its a design issue not an oil issue. Like oil film movies says a thicker oil might keep the oil from thinning out too much.
 
Just go to Wally World and pick up Valvoline full synthetic that is on roleback this month it's more than good enough for your Honda.
 
30 weight.

I would not run a 20 weight in a turbo DI until we see enough UOAs that show some viscosity control.
 
Originally Posted By: webfors
30 weight.

I would not run a 20 weight in a turbo DI until we see enough UOAs that show some viscosity control.


Yes I totally agree!
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Just go to Wally World and pick up Valvoline full synthetic that is on roleback this month it's more than good enough for your Honda.




Agree with this. Valvoline latest formulation is d1G2 certified and SN+ ready. One thing I would do is run 5w30 because of the turbo. I usually go with the manufacturer recommendations but in this case I personally would not.
 
Totally agree. Will be running same in my 1.5T. Although running premium gasoline seemed to help a lot with dilution.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Just go to Wally World and pick up Valvoline full synthetic that is on roleback this month it's more than good enough for your Honda.




Agree with this. Valvoline latest formulation is d1G2 certified and SN+ ready. One thing I would do is run 5w30 because of the turbo. I usually go with the manufacturer recommendations but in this case I personally would not.


The way I look at it all Ford Ecoboost motors were upgraded from 20 weight to 30 weight oil and that's enogh reason for me not to play with 20 weight oils with any new turbocharged engine from any make without proof that it is ok from a UOA.
 
Originally Posted By: Brolly
But isn’t there a connection between LSPI and fuel dilution? Maybe we should look deeper why are the 1.5T having a fuel dilution problem. Spraying extra fuel to keep it cooler and to lessen the LSPI and therefore causing oil issues or am I misunderstanding? Just a question. My guess will be this 2.0T will have fuel dilution how much is unknown. But I want to prepare for it from the start. I haven’t heard any of the Civic Type R’s having fuel dilution so maybe the Accords 2.0T won’t.

Are you saying the Honda engine would sense LSPI (piezo thingie), and then control to rich to counter? I didn't think engine control strategies did that since it can't reliably guarantee destructive & sudden pre-ignition won't just take out the valves+pistons before control can be applied. LSPI happens that fast.

If that's the case, and Honda does go rich at the first sign of knock, then I see how there could be a connection to the Mobil11 low-Ca, which inhibits LSPI, and the Honda control strategy which goes rich with other high-Ca oils that allow more LSPI.

M1 AFE 0w30 still my choice here. I like the 0w at least matching Honda's 0w recommendation, and the slight edge on visc & oil film thickness with the "30" part when or if fuel dilution rears its ugly head. Also, M1 AFE 0w30 is all dexos1 Gen2 anti-LSPI, timing chain tests, GMOD, etc., good to go.
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
The way I look at it all Ford Ecoboost motors were upgraded from 20 weight to 30 weight oil and that's enogh reason for me not to play with 20 weight oils with any new turbocharged engine from any make without proof that it is ok from a UOA.
Not all Ecoboost went to 5w30. The smaller ones (1.5T, 1.6T, 1.0T) are 5w20.
 
Originally Posted By: Brolly
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Brolly, I don't think Calcium or Boron has any effect at all on fuel dilution.
You might be thinking of LSPI, which is a particular kind of detonation, of which low-Ca does appear to be what prevents it the best, based on observing newer dexos1 Gen2 and SN+ formulas and various websites on the subject.

If you're having fuel dilution, I'd definitely go to using M1 AFE 0w30 in that, one grade up to counter it. The fuel will bring it down to a 0w20 after a few thousand miles so you'll finish on the thin side of the 0w20 kv100 range.


But isn’t there a connection between LSPI and fuel dilution? Maybe we should look deeper why are the 1.5T having a fuel dilution problem. Spraying extra fuel to keep it cooler and to lessen the LSPI and therefore causing oil issues or am I misunderstanding? Just a question. My guess will be this 2.0T will have fuel dilution how much is unknown. But I want to prepare for it from the start. I haven’t heard any of the Civic Type R’s having fuel dilution so maybe the Accords 2.0T won’t.



What octane do you use? I think 87 octane is the cause of fuel dilution. The auto makers know Cheapo Joe wont buy an Accord/Cruze/Malibu.. if it recommends premium gas, so they give the engine a compromised tune to compensate for 87 octane. Some Honda's like the type R don't get a compromised tune.
The Accord 1.5 makes 128 HP per liter. The Ford Mustang GT V8 makes 92 HP per liter using 93 octane. Ford recommends premium fuel in all Mustangs.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: Brolly
But isn’t there a connection between LSPI and fuel dilution? Maybe we should look deeper why are the 1.5T having a fuel dilution problem. Spraying extra fuel to keep it cooler and to lessen the LSPI and therefore causing oil issues or am I misunderstanding? Just a question. My guess will be this 2.0T will have fuel dilution how much is unknown. But I want to prepare for it from the start. I haven’t heard any of the Civic Type R’s having fuel dilution so maybe the Accords 2.0T won’t.

Are you saying the Honda engine would sense LSPI (piezo thingie), and then control to rich to counter? I didn't think engine control strategies did that since it can't reliably guarantee destructive & sudden pre-ignition won't just take out the valves+pistons before control can be applied. LSPI happens that fast.

If that's the case, and Honda does go rich at the first sign of knock, then I see how there could be a connection to the Mobil11 low-Ca, which inhibits LSPI, and the Honda control strategy which goes rich with other high-Ca oils that allow more LSPI.

M1 AFE 0w30 still my choice here. I like the 0w at least matching Honda's 0w recommendation, and the slight edge on visc & oil film thickness with the "30" part when or if fuel dilution rears its ugly head. Also, M1 AFE 0w30 is all dexos1 Gen2 anti-LSPI, timing chain tests, GMOD, etc., good to go.


I think the idea is to run rich or to spray extra(maybe not the best word) to keep the engine cool and to try to prevent LSPI but in doing so this creates blow by or fuel dilution. Some 1.5T owners by using premium fuel have noticed a decrease in dilution through oil sampling. Others have noticed changing to certain Dexos 1 Gen 2 oils a decrease in dilution on top of those that have noticed a decrease by using low Cal packages and some high in boron. I think there a multiple variables playing here on these DI and DI turbo engines. Car companies are saying it’s fine it’s just dilution blah blah blah. Maybe the best thing would be performing step by step changes and see what works and what doesn’t. I think turbo engines alone should have premium gas anyways. That I have already done. Odd that Honda went the way they did. Is there a Decos 1 Gen 2 oil with a low cal package and a high boron count?
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Originally Posted By: Brolly
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Brolly, I don't think Calcium or Boron has any effect at all on fuel dilution.
You might be thinking of LSPI, which is a particular kind of detonation, of which low-Ca does appear to be what prevents it the best, based on observing newer dexos1 Gen2 and SN+ formulas and various websites on the subject.

If you're having fuel dilution, I'd definitely go to using M1 AFE 0w30 in that, one grade up to counter it. The fuel will bring it down to a 0w20 after a few thousand miles so you'll finish on the thin side of the 0w20 kv100 range.


But isn’t there a connection between LSPI and fuel dilution? Maybe we should look deeper why are the 1.5T having a fuel dilution problem. Spraying extra fuel to keep it cooler and to lessen the LSPI and therefore causing oil issues or am I misunderstanding? Just a question. My guess will be this 2.0T will have fuel dilution how much is unknown. But I want to prepare for it from the start. I haven’t heard any of the Civic Type R’s having fuel dilution so maybe the Accords 2.0T won’t.



What octane do you use? I think 87 octane is the cause of fuel dilution. The auto makers know Cheapo Joe wont buy an Accord/Cruze/Malibu.. if it recommends premium gas, so they give the engine a compromised tune to compensate for 87 octane. Some Honda's like the type R don't get a compromised tune.
The Accord 1.5 makes 128 HP per liter. The Ford Mustang GT V8 makes 92 HP per liter using 93 octane. Ford recommends premium fuel in all Mustangs.


91 currently. I am getting better MPG with it also. I’m use to paying for it due to having the Acura MDX prior. Hard to get a hold of 93 on this side of town.
 
Do you have this in writing? I've been thinking about swappiny wife's escape to 5w30 but it's still under warranty so I don't want to with out it actually being out there
 
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