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Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design #4725851
04/13/18 01:30 PM
04/13/18 01:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,860
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,860
Kendall, FL
What does "diesel inspired..." imply?
Is this inherently stronger/more durable?

Image taken while at a local Ford dealership




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Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4725857
04/13/18 01:35 PM
04/13/18 01:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,345
Northern Ontario, Canada
Danno Online content
Danno  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,345
Northern Ontario, Canada
2 things come to mind for diesel piston
Bowl piston top
A lot of extra meat on the piston above the top ring

The 2.7L piston has the bowl design, but doesn't look too meaty.
More meat = more weight = lower engine speeds, which is contrary to a gasoline engine rpm operating environment

Last edited by Danno; 04/13/18 01:35 PM.

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Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4725862
04/13/18 01:39 PM
04/13/18 01:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,478
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,478
California
The 2.7L EBV6 is basically a diesel engine at heart with a CGI block. Offset con rods help with offsetting the impact of combustion energy hypothetically - the rod bearings would have less stress especially coming from TDC. The piston bowl design helps with optimizing how fuel burns in the combustion chamber - I think having a richer mixture near the spark plug helps mitigate knock.

It should be said though, bigger diesel engines use Mahle's Monotherm piston that doesn't use a skirt like a regular piston does.

http://www.us.mahle.com/en/motorsports/diesel-powerpak-pistons/

Last edited by nthach; 04/13/18 01:41 PM.
Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4725863
04/13/18 01:40 PM
04/13/18 01:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 981
midwest
JamesBond Online content
JamesBond  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 981
midwest
Is this worn rusty prop really part of a promotional display at a Ford dealer? Who comes up with this stuff? It probably helps sell more Chevrolets.

Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4725864
04/13/18 01:40 PM
04/13/18 01:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,978
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,978
Ontario, Canada
The rod looks like a Cummins or Powerstroke rod:



2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
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Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4725868
04/13/18 01:44 PM
04/13/18 01:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: wemay
What does "diesel inspired..." imply?
I think it means it smokes like a diesel:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4491266/Blown_2.7L_Ecoboost_Engines_-T

Originally Posted By: JamesBond
Is this worn rusty prop really part of a promotional display at a Ford dealer? Who comes up with this stuff? It probably helps sell more Chevrolets.
Right there. I mean, at least apply some rust dissolver gel & clean er up a bit. Shine it maybe.

Last edited by oil_film_movies; 04/13/18 01:48 PM.
Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4725935
04/13/18 03:04 PM
04/13/18 03:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,591
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,591
Toronto
"Diesel Inspired Piston" heh well it is just a GDI-converted PSA DT17 Diesel engine!
What they must be talking about regarding the piston specifically is the top compression rings; notice the steel band insert cast into the aluminum? Almost looks like there's one for the second compression ring too, but that appears to be a machined bevel and/or treatment of the aluminum. Top ring steel insert is for sure though. NA and turbo Skyactiv engines have the same thing, that's how I discovered about this feature winding up in gasoline engines.


Scambling for solutions is a hopelessly futile endeavour and potentially dangerous, without first coming to a solid, personal understanding of the problem. Beware riding the ideological hobby horse.
Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4725944
04/13/18 03:14 PM
04/13/18 03:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,657
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,657
Western S.C.
Long ago, at a Ford tractor dealership I saw a similar display of a hefty-looking rod from Ford's then-new 3-cylinder gasoline engine, alongside a comparatively scrawny rod from a competitor's comparable 4-cylinder tractor. So, it must be a long tradition of Ford dealers.


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1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
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Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4725981
04/13/18 03:56 PM
04/13/18 03:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,452
Washington State (East)
Blaze Offline
Blaze  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,452
Washington State (East)
My wife has the 3.5 Ecoboost in a F150 and RPM-wise its runs like a diesel. Our drive into town is about an hr and highest speed is 55-60mph and the tach NEVER goes over 1500 rpm. There is plenty of low-end torque from 1200-1500 rpm to comfortable push this truck down the road, just like a diesel.

Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4726000
04/13/18 04:25 PM
04/13/18 04:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 407
Alberta
tcp71 Offline
tcp71  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 407
Alberta
http://articles.sae.org/13388/

Quote:
CGI cylinder block in aluminum structure

The 2.7-L is based on an all-new V6 architecture; it's not part of the 3.5-L family. Bore and stroke dimensions are a "square" 83 x 83-mm. Bore spacing is 95 mm/3.74 in, and the cylinder bank offset is 35 mm/1.38 in.

The dohc, four-valves-per-cylinder engine employs twin-independent continuously-variable valve timing (TI-CVT), with the phasers operating in a range of over 30º. Ford is able to use TI-CVT to eliminate the need for an exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve. Compresson ratio is 10:1.

The linerless cylinder block is compacted graphite iron (CGI), Ford's first application of this material in a gasoline engine. Proven on the latest generation diesels and some racing engines, CGI is a high-strength material with excellent heat transfer properties. Compared with grey iron, the CGI cylinder block offers approximately 75% higher tensile strength, 45% greater stiffness and roughly double the fatigue strength, with excellent dimensional stability, durability, and NVH damping characteristics, according to Ed Waszczenko, Ford's V-Engine Design Leader. He noted that Ford also used CGI in the 6.7-L Power Stroke V8 diesel (which influenced the design of the 2.7-L's block, offset I-beam connecting rods, reinforced-plastic oil pan, and pistons) as well as in the 2.7-L light-duty diesel co-developed by Ford and PSA for European applications.

CGI's strength properties allow for thinner-section cylinder block walls and narrower main bearing saddles. The CGI block is actually one of two main structural elements of the new V6's lower end. The other main element is a die-cast aluminum ladder frame which envelops the lower portion of the CGI element and bolts to thick flanges on each side of the cylinder block. Heavily ribbed on its exterior for added rigidity, the ladder frame also supports the precision-fractured main bearing caps.

The bearing caps, also in CGI, are laser-etched at an angle, Waszczenko explained. The specific angle creates a wedge effect that when the sections are merely set together, the engine actually would be able to run without the cap bolts.

The small (top) end of the con rod does not contain a piston pin bushing. Instead, the rod's pin bore is slightly convex, to allow for flexing of the pin, and is silicone-coated. Eliminating the bushing permits a slight reduction (3.0 mm) in deck height of the engine, which is 218.3 mm (8.60 in). The exhaust manifolds are cast integrally with the cylinder heads, which produces a compact overall structure and improves heat transfer—necessary for fast catalyst light-off. At the front, the accessory drive pulleys are mounted to a single, rigid aluminum casting.

The cooling system is a reverse-flow: Once the thermostat opens, the coolant flows from the pump through both the heads and the exhaust manifolds, and then down and through the block.


2016 F150 Eco: Edge 0w40
2005 Sienna 3.3: mobil 0w40 (varies)
Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: tcp71] #4726016
04/13/18 04:45 PM
04/13/18 04:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: tcp71
http://articles.sae.org/13388/ CGI cylinder block in aluminum structure: The small (top) end of the con rod does not contain a piston pin bushing. Instead, the rod's pin bore is slightly convex, to allow for flexing of the pin, and is silicone-coated.
Silicone is a polymer lubricant or plastic material. A wrist pin with no bushing would need a silicon (no "e" on the end) carbide coated surface.

Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4726060
04/13/18 05:50 PM
04/13/18 05:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,090
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,090
Kalifornia Kollective
Diesel inspired -> forged pistons (depending on RPM range), coated skirts, dished top, reinforced ring support, offset rod. All common on diesels smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4726063
04/13/18 05:53 PM
04/13/18 05:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,126
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,126
pa
todays DI allows gas turbo engines to make more cylinder pressure sooner without pinging + thats generally on cheap gas!! get a look what a tune can do for a VAG engine @ goapr using 91 or 93 octane!!

Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4726119
04/13/18 06:29 PM
04/13/18 06:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,065
MA.
Camprunner Offline
Camprunner  Offline
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,065
MA.
I have the larger 3.0 twin turbo version of this motor in my new Lincoln MKZ it develops 400 HP and 400 Foot pounds of torque and is a hoot to drive! It's quiet and civilized when just putting along but drop your right foot and it's just an animal!

Re: Ford 2.7 Ecoboost piston design [Re: wemay] #4726128
04/13/18 06:33 PM
04/13/18 06:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,147
NE,Ohio
Rand Offline
Rand  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,147
NE,Ohio
also kinda looks like an fb25 rod (a subaru flat 4 engine 2011-present)


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