Recent Topics
Aftermarket belts Infiniti G35
by mb32
6 minutes 56 seconds ago
Mixing, example: Valvoline syn pre and post d1G2
by wemay
8 minutes 50 seconds ago
Magnatec lovers
by Dyusik
22 minutes 34 seconds ago
Best detergent oil for light sludge in Toyota 3.4
by DPRespecki
49 minutes 35 seconds ago
Any of your mowers have PCV systems/valves?
by SOHCman
Today at 02:02 PM
Do you like woodgrain interior trim in Vehicles?
by ZZman
Today at 01:08 PM
Insane or Sane: small oil circulating pump for gen
by henni
Today at 01:06 PM
$10 off $50 gas card at Publix with $50 purchase
by Mr Nice
Today at 12:41 PM
Ordered some Valvoline IMV Full Syn for the Vibe
by Nicasio
Today at 12:32 PM
Cheap, Durable wood stain
by DeafBrad
Today at 11:58 AM
Canadian Tire 5 Gallon Pail of Rotella T4
by Snagglefoot
Today at 11:39 AM
Kawasaki oem filter bypass?
by kawie_guy
Today at 11:14 AM
Genuine and OE with different COO's?
by dlundblad
Today at 11:11 AM
Grinding noise after emergency stop.
by BAJA_05
Today at 11:02 AM
Helpful Information about Engin Oils
by mctmatt
Today at 10:18 AM
Chevy Malibu Hybrid
by AirgunSavant
Today at 10:07 AM
Where to keep passwords?
by AZjeff
Today at 09:38 AM
U Haul 5 x 8 trailer is only 51.5" wide.
by tomcat27
Today at 09:33 AM
LN Oil Filter Adapter installed
by rooflessVW
Today at 09:07 AM
New Ford 1.5 Liter
by Danh
Today at 08:46 AM
Newest Members
brillo54, SirEatsALot, Alko, Projecto, Kole
64792 Registered Users
Who's Online
86 registered (69Torino, 2strokeNorthstar, 2009Edge, AEHaas, ArrestMeRedZ, 7 invisible), 1567 Guests and 102 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
64792 Members
68 Forums
282016 Topics
4708277 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#4719136 - 04/07/18 06:44 AM Crankshaft rotation before engine starts
NICAT Offline


Registered: 04/05/18
Posts: 11
Loc: Azerbaijan
Hi Friends,
I just wonder about this. When you start up the car, how long does it take for the oil to reach the piston rings ?
And, is higher number of crankshaft rotations before the engine start is good for cylinder wall lubrication ?
My car has GM, 4 Stroke SOHC engine, and surprisingly, the engine starts almost as soon as you turn the ignition key.
It sounds great, but does it mean that piston rings will starve for oil ? (Since the leftover oil at the cylinder wall from the previous operation will be burnt immediately in combustion chamber)
Regards.

Top
#4719141 - 04/07/18 06:53 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: NICAT]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18217
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
200 rpm is the average cranking speed so there isn't a whole lot of oil pressure building up at that rpm so the quicker it starts the better.
The oil left on the cylinder walls, bearings, cam and other internals is enough to keep things lubed until pressurized oil reaches it.
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

Top
#4719166 - 04/07/18 07:20 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: NICAT]
Alex_V Offline


Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 1113
Loc: Campbellsville, KY
The high idle speed the engine momentarily goes to upon startup, in part, serves to get oil pumped/slung to the different areas quickly, but doesn't rev so high as to cause more harm than good before fresh oil gets there. An engine can build a little bit of oil pressure at cranking speed if cranked long enough, but that's hard on the starter and seems like a non-issue given the longevity of engines already.
_________________________
I like Chevy and Valvoline.

'13 Cruze, 1.4T, 110K
'85 GMC C3500, 454, 130K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 165K
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K

Top
#4719187 - 04/07/18 07:46 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: NICAT]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 7467
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Dry starts are one of the duties of boundary lubrication-the ZDDP, titanium, or other deposits are left behind, along with some oil, to lubricate until the oil pump can deliver enough oil to everything. That's why I let the engine idle, no additional throttle, for 5-10 seconds (longer in cold weather with thicker diesel oil) before putting in gear and being easy on it until the temperature gauge hits the normal range.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 15 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)

Top
#4719217 - 04/07/18 08:12 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: NICAT]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1263
Loc: Alberta
There are some videos in this forum showing how long it takes oil to reach the rocker arms and cam bearings. Anyone recall where they are? I think the general conclusion was donít lose sleep over it, the residual oil takes care of things until the pressurized oil reaches the components.


Edited by Snagglefoot (04/07/18 08:13 AM)

Top
#4719232 - 04/07/18 08:30 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: Snagglefoot]
Kira Offline


Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 4878
Loc: Champlain/Hudson Valley
Sis' old (1988) Jeep would crank through 2 full engine revs because two positioning sensors needed to go through their zeros (i read).

I always thought that was not a bad thing because it started oil on its way at the very least.

Never have I seen data one way or the other.

Top
#4719268 - 04/07/18 09:01 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: NICAT]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2319
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
On my 1988 Escort, with 15W-40 HDEO at a temperature of about +15C ( 60F )it takes about 4 seconds for oil to appear at the top of the engine when started from cold.
I normally start it up, then let it run for 10-15 secs before getting going when started from cold ( Mechanical injection so runs a little rough the first few moments of running )
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6
1988 Ford Escort 1.6 Xr3i Convertible
Finnish expat living in Spain
My clothes smell like 15W-40 HDEO and 20W-50.

Top
#4719269 - 04/07/18 09:01 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: Snagglefoot]
NICAT Offline


Registered: 04/05/18
Posts: 11
Loc: Azerbaijan
Thanks for detailed answers.

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
There are some videos in this forum showing how long it takes oil to reach the rocker arms and cam bearings. Anyone recall where they are? I think the general conclusion was donít lose sleep over it, the residual oil takes care of things until the pressurized oil reaches the components.


Well, that is correct. But since my question is more about cylinder wall lubrication, wouldn't residual oil burnt there just after the first combustion process ?


Edited by NICAT (04/07/18 09:02 AM)

Top
#4719271 - 04/07/18 09:03 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: Snagglefoot]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2319
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
There are some videos in this forum showing how long it takes oil to reach the rocker arms and cam bearings. Anyone recall where they are? I think the general conclusion was donít lose sleep over it, the residual oil takes care of things until the pressurized oil reaches the components.

+1
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6
1988 Ford Escort 1.6 Xr3i Convertible
Finnish expat living in Spain
My clothes smell like 15W-40 HDEO and 20W-50.

Top
#4719317 - 04/07/18 09:46 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: NICAT]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 18943
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: NICAT
Thanks for detailed answers.


Well, that is correct. But since my question is more about cylinder wall lubrication, wouldn't residual oil burnt there just after the first combustion process ?


Not sure about the last part of the sentence, but there should be some residual oil films in between the rings.

I would say sometime during the first complete rev you're going to have oil sling up to the cylinder wall and underside of the piston crown. Not to mention that Boundary Lubrication is acting due to the additive package.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it.


Edited by MolaKule (04/07/18 09:47 AM)
_________________________
Hatito Hakiwisilaasamamo Waswasimamo Howisiwapani - Shawnee for: "Hello," "Good Morning," and "here's hoping you feel good." smile

Top
#4719320 - 04/07/18 09:49 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: NICAT]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 7467
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: NICAT
Thanks for detailed answers.

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
There are some videos in this forum showing how long it takes oil to reach the rocker arms and cam bearings. Anyone recall where they are? I think the general conclusion was donít lose sleep over it, the residual oil takes care of things until the pressurized oil reaches the components.


Well, that is correct. But since my question is more about cylinder wall lubrication, wouldn't residual oil burnt there just after the first combustion process ?
Piston rings actually (if they're not severely worn) scrape the oil off the walls (at least the oil control rings do) and accumulate excess oil between them and the piston, which drains through the slots under the rings back down to the sump. Usually oil is returned by piston oil squirters or being slung off the big end rod bearings on the crank-both of which (IMHO) would be adversely affected by thick, cold, high viscosity oil. That's why I baby an engine until temperature starts to increase & oil is flying all over the crankcase.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 15 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)

Top
#4719345 - 04/07/18 10:08 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: NICAT]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13516
Loc: Illinois
In my Ford 2.3 and 2.5 engines I removed the oil fill cap where you can see one of the cams. With a light, I had my wife start the engine and oil was immediately flying around the cam. This was the first start of the day. So don't be concerned except if you are using an oil too thick for cold temp starts where flow may be an issue.. Otherwise you are good.


Edited by tig1 (04/07/18 10:08 AM)
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 224,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 47K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


Top
#4719361 - 04/07/18 10:28 AM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: Snagglefoot]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 5606
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
I think the general conclusion was donít lose sleep over it, the residual oil takes care of things until the pressurized oil reaches the components.


Correct.... The residual oil stays on for years,

I have disassembled engines that have sat ďunrunĒ for decades,
& there was still plenty of oil on all the internal parts
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4719445 - 04/07/18 12:35 PM Re: Crankshaft rotation before engine starts [Re: NICAT]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5205
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Rings never see pumped oil anyway. It's always sling oil off the crank. They can live on residual oil film for many minutes before they start to have issues.

The oil is not all burnt off. Burning requires that a substance reaches combustion temp. The water cooled cylinder walls prevent the oil film from completely flashing off. There is always a molecule or two thick oil film on even the upper walls exposed to combustion gasses smile


Edited by BrocLuno (04/07/18 12:36 PM)
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

Top