Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass

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Fram has the HP18 and HP19 oil filters for these applications. Fram Racing oil filters have good efficiency, very robust, silicone ADBV, expensive at $20 each though.

Sized right in the middle of the WL10290 (PF64, short) and the WL10255 (PF63E, very long) is the Wix 57502 http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/Exactmatch.aspx?PartNo=57502 and all have the required 22 psi bypass threshold. All three only differ in their lengths. You can use any of them IF your engine has room for the lengths.

NAPA Gold equivalents also exist for them. Part numbers 100290, 100255, and 7502.

Notice if your GM Owner's Manual says you need a UPF64R, that one has a high 35 psi bypass, so technically you can't use any of the Wix's or NAPA oil filters in that case.
 
Originally Posted By: 04SE
WIX update document

New L83 5.3 Gen V filter - WL10255

The new filter has been discussed but I haven't seen the document yet. Appears to be from 3/16/18.

Well, I guess this answers all of our questions/fears about bypass ratings on the new engines.

When will Fram release their updated filters?


That type of communication from Wix helps develop trust. Good job wix!

Now let's get these new filters to the suppliers!
 
What's WIX doing? I see the WIX 57502 crosses to the Motorcraft FL500S.

http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/InterchangeMultiSearch.aspx?q=FL500S&o=me

The WIX 57502 has the 22 PSI bypass valve and the FL500S is supposedly only an 8 PSI bypass valve. I doubt the Ford guys want to run a filter with such a high bypass valve setting if their motors really don't need it.

http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=1659924

Is WIX just making all their filters with a 22 PSI bypass valve to cover all bases now?
eek.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The WIX 57502 has the 22 PSI bypass valve and the FL500S is supposedly only an 8 PSI bypass valve. I doubt the Ford guys want to run a filter with such a high bypass valve setting if their motors really don't need it. Is WIX just making all their filters with a 22 PSI bypass valve to cover all bases now?
eek.gif

I've read some of the posts (Jim Allen, ZeeOSix, etc.) from the past about bypass events, and of course GM's memo about how they really want to see 22 psi on just about all gasoline engines they have made since 2012 (clearances smaller, higher oil pressure, etc.).
The only bad effect I can see of running an oil filter with TOO HIGH of a bypass pressure threshold is that it makes the oil pump work too hard on cold startup, delaying flow to the engine with thick oil in the sump.

In a nutshell, choice of bypass pressure is an engineering choice that takes into account cold, thick oil trying to get to the bearings. It also takes into account the cost of too many bypass events washing junk into the bearings. Let GM engineers dictate it.

That said, I do wonder why the famous GM memo says ALL engines made since 2012. They put the small PF64 on big Corvette V8's and their tiny 1.5L turbo alike! And Corvettes use 5w30 or 0w40 while the 1.5L uses 0w20. Its tempting to say the 1.5L has low oil flow compared to the big V8, and the lower viscosity amplifies that difference even more, meaning its probably less important in a 1.5L vs. V8s here.

Add to that the lower differential pressure of using an oversized oil filter. I can use a very long PF63E sized oil filter even though a PF64 is the spec. That lowers the frequency of bypass events even further on the 1.5T. (Other engines don't have room for a longer oil filter though, but the the 1.5L on an '18 Equinox does for me.)
 
But where is this high residual pressure? … is there significant parasitic loss between the pump and the sensor ?

I ask because my Tahoe only “dances” a hair left/right of 40 psi on the electronic gauge ?

It takes miles to reach steady state temperature... but that’s all the pressure moves …

This is with a Fram Ultra XG10575 and Mobil 1 EP 0w20 (70% life on OLM)
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Fram has the HP18 and HP19 oil filters for these applications. Fram Racing oil filters have good efficiency, very robust, silicone ADBV, expensive at $20 each though.

Sized right in the middle of the WL10290 (PF64, short) and the WL10255 (PF63E, very long) is the Wix 57502 http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/Exactmatch.aspx?PartNo=57502 and all have the required 22 psi bypass threshold. All three only differ in their lengths. You can use any of them IF your engine has room for the lengths.

NAPA Gold equivalents also exist for them. Part numbers 100290, 100255, and 7502.

Notice if your GM Owner's Manual says you need a UPF64R, that one has a high 35 psi bypass, so technically you can't use any of the Wix's or NAPA oil filters in that case.


Don't forget about the Wix 51372, which is only about 0.4" longer than the PF64 and also has the 22 psi bypass. The NAPA Gold equivalent is the 1372.

I know I said in the past I didn't want to run the oversize filter on my Corvette, but for just one interval I think I might go with the 1372, until the proper size (100290) hits the stores.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Fram has the HP18 and HP19 oil filters for these applications. Fram Racing oil filters have good efficiency, very robust, silicone ADBV, expensive at $20 each though.

Sized right in the middle of the WL10290 (PF64, short) and the WL10255 (PF63E, very long) is the Wix 57502 http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/Exactmatch.aspx?PartNo=57502 and all have the required 22 psi bypass threshold. All three only differ in their lengths. You can use any of them IF your engine has room for the lengths.

NAPA Gold equivalents also exist for them. Part numbers 100290, 100255, and 7502.

Notice if your GM Owner's Manual says you need a UPF64R, that one has a high 35 psi bypass, so technically you can't use any of the Wix's or NAPA oil filters in that case.


Don't forget about the Wix 51372, which is only about 0.4" longer than the PF64 and also has the 22 psi bypass. The NAPA Gold equivalent is the 1372.

I know I said in the past I didn't want to run the oversize filter on my Corvette, but for just one interval I think I might go with the 1372, until the proper size (100290) hits the stores.


And the 57502 not that much longer, as another option.
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
But where is this high residual pressure? … is there significant parasitic loss between the pump and the sensor ? I ask because my Tahoe only “dances” a hair left/right of 40 psi on the electronic gauge ? It takes miles to reach steady state temperature... but that’s all the pressure moves … This is with a Fram Ultra XG10575 and Mobil 1 EP 0w20 (70% life on OLM)
Tighter clearances on GM engines made after about 2011 mean there is more resistance to oil flow. Pressure is steady due to the feedback control system on the newer engines too. All the gory details are at
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/att...f-pf64-pf48.pdf
 
Read that before and again as I idle (hot) with 30 psi … so how far “in the plumbing” is it reading the 30 psi in the “ high pressure” system …? (Cold is normally 40 psi) …

It has to flow past that Fram Ultra first … but can’t read that delta P —- right?
 
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: 4WD
But where is this high residual pressure? … is there significant parasitic loss between the pump and the sensor ? I ask because my Tahoe only “dances” a hair left/right of 40 psi on the electronic gauge ? It takes miles to reach steady state temperature... but that’s all the pressure moves … This is with a Fram Ultra XG10575 and Mobil 1 EP 0w20 (70% life on OLM)
Tighter clearances on GM engines made after about 2011 mean there is more resistance to oil flow. Pressure is steady due to the feedback control system on the newer engines too. All the gory details are at
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/att...f-pf64-pf48.pdf


From the GM TSB:

"Today's engine has very tight tolerances, two stage oil pumps and high flow lubrication system
requirements. The proper match of oil filter to engine application is more important than it has
ever been in the past. The use of a replacement oil filter with an internal bypass valve opening
pressure specifications of 15 PSI (100 kPa) or less, allows debris to circulate in the engine
causing damage to bearings and other tight tolerances areas, which may result in premature
engine failure.

The oil pressure was increased to accommodate these tighter tolerances. As a result, the oil filter
specifications of the production oil filter and the service oil filter were also improved to meet the
new engine requirements."


If the engine tolerances decreased, then it sounds like they have increased oil pressure in order to achieve the same oil flow, or even maybe more oil flow through the engine. Again, the delta-p across the oil filter is a function of the oil flow rate going through it, not the oil pressure seen. You can have high oil pressure with not much flow if the engine is really "tight" tolerances. Or you could have really high oil flow without much oil pressure if the engine is really "loose" tolerances. The former would give less delta-p across the filter, and the latter would give more delta-p across the filter. The filter's bypass valve setting should be a function of what the expected max delta-p across the filter will be.

So has GM actually made the engine tolerances tighter, AND also increased oil pressure to actually make the engine flow even more oil flow then they have in the past?

"Beginning in 2012, the oil pumps began to regulate main gallery feedback instead of pump out
pressure. This means that the oil pump now does not begin to regulate until pressure is built up to
the main gallery. This change reduces the amount of time it takes to provide oil to the engine
bearing and lifters during extreme cold start conditions."


Even if the oil pressure feedback sensor for the pump was at the farthest point from the oil pump, and the oil pump was allowed to flow "unregulated" (ie, full output based on RPM), is it really putting out any more oil flow than a good old fashion positive displacement oil pump? These "two stage" oil pumps in the newer engines are still positive displacement oil pumps. They can only put out so much flow as a function of their swept physical volume and engine RPM.

Are the oil pumps on these engines really putting out a huge amount of oil flow at cold start-up engine RPM to warrant a 22 PSI bypass setting in the oil filter? If the oil filter is really restrictive, then maybe the answer is yes. Or maybe GM thinks people are going to be revving the engine up pretty good at -20F right after a cold start. But I find it really hard to believe it's because the oil pumps in these newer engines are putting out 2 times more oil flow than the older engines were. Especially when these "two stage" oil pumps on newer vehicles are used because they are designed to supposedly cut down on oil pump HP loss by flowing less oil than an old traditional PD oil pump, and are meant to help give a hair better fuel mileage.
 
Originally Posted By: webfors


And the 57502 not that much longer, as another option.


As it is, the PF64 sits flush with the bottom of my oil pan, so even going just the slightest bit longer makes me a little nervous, so I definitely don't want to take it one step further still
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

From the GM TSB:

"Today's engine has very tight tolerances, two stage oil pumps and high flow lubrication system
requirements. The proper match of oil filter to engine application is more important than it has
ever been in the past...."


Then you'd think GM would try to get the AC Delco filters in order.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

From the GM TSB:

"Today's engine has very tight tolerances, two stage oil pumps and high flow lubrication system
requirements. The proper match of oil filter to engine application is more important than it has
ever been in the past...."


Then you'd think GM would try to get the AC Delco filters in order.
wink.gif


I think so too.
 
That’s the whole point of my question … relative sensitivity to pressures:
Length is linear response
The density is fixed
The viscosity has the lowest impact
When I’m warmed up and at idle the GPM is fixed

And ID has by far the greatest impact on friction (sensor location) so tell me how this “HIGH pressure” GM system and all this “tight” stuff can only show 30 warmed up? (Engine with 9k miles)

By best guess is temp is a (minor viscous) pressure impact (Shannow and I agreed on this before) ... and that 10 psi to 12 psi drop from cold to warmed up (its 80F and 0w20 high PAO oil) ... is nothing more than the “slow stage” saving a wee bit of energy instead of turning the darn motor off (this SUV does not do that)
At that flow the synthetic media induced pressure is peanuts and the pressure loss would come off of a downstream sensor anyway … (take that minor psi loss and the gauge never feels it)
 
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
....They can only put out so much flow as a function of their swept physical volume and engine RPM....

I'm thinking there is a start-up time pressure wave, which blasts the oil filter before the back-pressure can build up on the clean side of the oil filter. Cold starts are doing this more. Thick oil, hitting the media, will spike pressure, and the new pressure feedback control scheme has those pumps running hard until full back-pressure develops. ... GM is concerned about bypass events during this time, so I guess we should too. The engineers could be wrong I suppose. They do instrument and observe far more than we do though. Believing them.

Basically, "differential pressure" across the filter media is mostly discussed as a steady state value for fully developed flow.
This is really referring to a spikey, transient event that keeps popping bypass valves.
Although its also true that a very cold engine run at high-ish RPM is experiencing a fairly high differential pressure which might pop the bypass too.

What's bizarre is how many years it took them to issue that memo. Memo came out less than 1 year ago, and it applies to engines built 7 years ago.... Late!!!
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
That’s the whole point of my question … relative sensitivity to pressures:
Length is linear response
The density is fixed
The viscosity has the lowest impact
When I’m warmed up and at idle the GPM is fixed

And ID has by far the greatest impact on friction (sensor location) so tell me how this “HIGH pressure” GM system and all this “tight” stuff can only show 30 warmed up? (Engine with 9k miles)

By best guess is temp is a (minor viscous) pressure impact (Shannow and I agreed on this before) ... and that 10 psi to 12 psi drop from cold to warmed up (its 80F and 0w20 high PAO oil) ... is nothing more than the “slow stage” saving a wee bit of energy instead of turning the darn motor off (this SUV does not do that)
At that flow the synthetic media induced pressure is peanuts and the pressure loss would come off of a downstream sensor anyway … (take that minor psi loss and the gauge never feels it)


I don't know exactly where the oil pressure sensor used to control the oil pump is located, but I'd bet it's not in some remote place where there's some super restrictive path going to it. It't most likely placed someplace in the large main oil gallery shortly after the oil filter.

If the oil pump's output is controlled by an oil pressure sensor located after the oil pump and filter, then that kind of control system will ensure that the oil pressure in the main gallery is always about the same regardless of what oil filter is used. Per the GM TSB, that is their basic goal in cold start situations, to ensure the oil pump keeps flowing oil and doesn't start controlling flow until the main gallery is full and pressurized as dictated by the feedback oil pressure sensor.

So apparently they felt that they needed to raise the filter's bypass relief valve setting in a situation like that. I still don't think the new "two stage" oil pumps flow any more during a cold start RPM (1200 RPM) while "unregulated" by the control pressure sensor than any other positive displacement oil pump ... I'd be really surprised if they did. Has GM put "high volume" oil pumps on all their engines starting in 2012 with these "two stage" oil pumps?
 
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