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#4717370 - 04/05/18 04:18 PM Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass
04SE Offline


Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 939
Loc: IL
WIX update document

New L83 5.3 Gen V filter - WL10255

The new filter has been discussed but I haven't seen the document yet. Appears to be from 3/16/18.

Well, I guess this answers all of our questions/fears about bypass ratings on the new engines.

When will Fram release their updated filters?
_________________________
Life's little problems can be solved with a shovel and silence.

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#4717403 - 04/05/18 04:48 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: 04SE]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2719
Loc: MN
Fram has the HP18 and HP19 oil filters for these applications. Fram Racing oil filters have good efficiency, very robust, silicone ADBV, expensive at $20 each though.

Sized right in the middle of the WL10290 (PF64, short) and the WL10255 (PF63E, very long) is the Wix 57502 http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/Exactmatch.aspx?PartNo=57502 and all have the required 22 psi bypass threshold. All three only differ in their lengths. You can use any of them IF your engine has room for the lengths.

NAPA Gold equivalents also exist for them. Part numbers 100290, 100255, and 7502.

Notice if your GM Owner's Manual says you need a UPF64R, that one has a high 35 psi bypass, so technically you can't use any of the Wix's or NAPA oil filters in that case.

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#4717449 - 04/05/18 05:54 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: 04SE]
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4955
Loc: Great White North.. eh
Originally Posted By: 04SE
WIX update document

New L83 5.3 Gen V filter - WL10255

The new filter has been discussed but I haven't seen the document yet. Appears to be from 3/16/18.

Well, I guess this answers all of our questions/fears about bypass ratings on the new engines.

When will Fram release their updated filters?


That type of communication from Wix helps develop trust. Good job wix!

Now let's get these new filters to the suppliers!
_________________________
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Valvoline 20w50, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30

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#4717575 - 04/05/18 07:32 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: 04SE]
mobilaltima Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1172
Loc: Golden Meadow, LA
Great! Now I dont have to use just the PF63E, finally, other options.
_________________________
2006 2500 Dodge 5.9 Cummins Mobil Delvac 15W40, Fleetguard Stratapore 90k miles
Early '99 F250 ECLB 7.3 Stroker, 223k miles

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#4717593 - 04/05/18 07:50 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: 04SE]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 18220
Loc: PNW
What's WIX doing? I see the WIX 57502 crosses to the Motorcraft FL500S.

http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/InterchangeMultiSearch.aspx?q=FL500S&o=me

The WIX 57502 has the 22 PSI bypass valve and the FL500S is supposedly only an 8 PSI bypass valve. I doubt the Ford guys want to run a filter with such a high bypass valve setting if their motors really don't need it.

http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=1659924

Is WIX just making all their filters with a 22 PSI bypass valve to cover all bases now? eek


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#4717754 - 04/05/18 10:04 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: 04SE]
jhellwig Offline


Registered: 07/01/13
Posts: 1597
Loc: Ottumwa, Iowa
Baldwin has always had a 20 psi bypass on these size filters.
_________________________
Sparks fly from my fingers.

1995 Chevy K2500 Suburban lt 5.7
2014 Toyota Sienna
1983 Chevy K5 350

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#4717874 - 04/06/18 02:57 AM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: 04SE]
Realtech214 Offline


Registered: 02/01/13
Posts: 713
Loc: Florida
Well than. I still have 6 NG 7045s layin around for mine. Been using the 7045 for over. 90,000 miles on mine!
_________________________
2015 Silverado Crew Cab 5.3 LT 106,xxx miles
2001 Suburban LT 155,xxx miles
- - - - - -

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#4718190 - 04/06/18 09:41 AM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: ZeeOSix]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2719
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The WIX 57502 has the 22 PSI bypass valve and the FL500S is supposedly only an 8 PSI bypass valve. I doubt the Ford guys want to run a filter with such a high bypass valve setting if their motors really don't need it. Is WIX just making all their filters with a 22 PSI bypass valve to cover all bases now? eek
I've read some of the posts (Jim Allen, ZeeOSix, etc.) from the past about bypass events, and of course GM's memo about how they really want to see 22 psi on just about all gasoline engines they have made since 2012 (clearances smaller, higher oil pressure, etc.).
The only bad effect I can see of running an oil filter with TOO HIGH of a bypass pressure threshold is that it makes the oil pump work too hard on cold startup, delaying flow to the engine with thick oil in the sump.

In a nutshell, choice of bypass pressure is an engineering choice that takes into account cold, thick oil trying to get to the bearings. It also takes into account the cost of too many bypass events washing junk into the bearings. Let GM engineers dictate it.

That said, I do wonder why the famous GM memo says ALL engines made since 2012. They put the small PF64 on big Corvette V8's and their tiny 1.5L turbo alike! And Corvettes use 5w30 or 0w40 while the 1.5L uses 0w20. Its tempting to say the 1.5L has low oil flow compared to the big V8, and the lower viscosity amplifies that difference even more, meaning its probably less important in a 1.5L vs. V8s here.

Add to that the lower differential pressure of using an oversized oil filter. I can use a very long PF63E sized oil filter even though a PF64 is the spec. That lowers the frequency of bypass events even further on the 1.5T. (Other engines don't have room for a longer oil filter though, but the the 1.5L on an '18 Equinox does for me.)

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#4718207 - 04/06/18 09:54 AM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: oil_film_movies]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6897
Loc: Texas
But where is this high residual pressure? … is there significant parasitic loss between the pump and the sensor ?

I ask because my Tahoe only “dances” a hair left/right of 40 psi on the electronic gauge ?

It takes miles to reach steady state temperature... but that’s all the pressure moves …

This is with a Fram Ultra XG10575 and Mobil 1 EP 0w20 (70% life on OLM)

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#4718405 - 04/06/18 02:05 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: oil_film_movies]
Patman Online   content



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 20653
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Fram has the HP18 and HP19 oil filters for these applications. Fram Racing oil filters have good efficiency, very robust, silicone ADBV, expensive at $20 each though.

Sized right in the middle of the WL10290 (PF64, short) and the WL10255 (PF63E, very long) is the Wix 57502 http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/Exactmatch.aspx?PartNo=57502 and all have the required 22 psi bypass threshold. All three only differ in their lengths. You can use any of them IF your engine has room for the lengths.

NAPA Gold equivalents also exist for them. Part numbers 100290, 100255, and 7502.

Notice if your GM Owner's Manual says you need a UPF64R, that one has a high 35 psi bypass, so technically you can't use any of the Wix's or NAPA oil filters in that case.


Don't forget about the Wix 51372, which is only about 0.4" longer than the PF64 and also has the 22 psi bypass. The NAPA Gold equivalent is the 1372.

I know I said in the past I didn't want to run the oversize filter on my Corvette, but for just one interval I think I might go with the 1372, until the proper size (100290) hits the stores.
_________________________
2018 Corvette (M1 5w30 ESP Formula & Fram Ultra)
2006 Civic EX Coupe (PUP 5w20 & Fram Ultra)
2010 BMW 328i X-Drive (GC 0w40 & Fram Ultra)


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#4718411 - 04/06/18 02:10 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: Patman]
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4955
Loc: Great White North.. eh
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Fram has the HP18 and HP19 oil filters for these applications. Fram Racing oil filters have good efficiency, very robust, silicone ADBV, expensive at $20 each though.

Sized right in the middle of the WL10290 (PF64, short) and the WL10255 (PF63E, very long) is the Wix 57502 http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/Exactmatch.aspx?PartNo=57502 and all have the required 22 psi bypass threshold. All three only differ in their lengths. You can use any of them IF your engine has room for the lengths.

NAPA Gold equivalents also exist for them. Part numbers 100290, 100255, and 7502.

Notice if your GM Owner's Manual says you need a UPF64R, that one has a high 35 psi bypass, so technically you can't use any of the Wix's or NAPA oil filters in that case.


Don't forget about the Wix 51372, which is only about 0.4" longer than the PF64 and also has the 22 psi bypass. The NAPA Gold equivalent is the 1372.

I know I said in the past I didn't want to run the oversize filter on my Corvette, but for just one interval I think I might go with the 1372, until the proper size (100290) hits the stores.


And the 57502 not that much longer, as another option.
_________________________
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Valvoline 20w50, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30

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#4718427 - 04/06/18 02:22 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: 4WD]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2719
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: 4WD
But where is this high residual pressure? … is there significant parasitic loss between the pump and the sensor ? I ask because my Tahoe only “dances” a hair left/right of 40 psi on the electronic gauge ? It takes miles to reach steady state temperature... but that’s all the pressure moves … This is with a Fram Ultra XG10575 and Mobil 1 EP 0w20 (70% life on OLM)
Tighter clearances on GM engines made after about 2011 mean there is more resistance to oil flow. Pressure is steady due to the feedback control system on the newer engines too. All the gory details are at
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/att...f-pf64-pf48.pdf

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#4718439 - 04/06/18 02:33 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: oil_film_movies]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6897
Loc: Texas
Read that before and again as I idle (hot) with 30 psi … so how far “in the plumbing” is it reading the 30 psi in the “ high pressure” system …? (Cold is normally 40 psi) …

It has to flow past that Fram Ultra first … but can’t read that delta P —- right?


Edited by 4WD (04/06/18 02:33 PM)

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#4718505 - 04/06/18 03:39 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: oil_film_movies]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 18220
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: 4WD
But where is this high residual pressure? … is there significant parasitic loss between the pump and the sensor ? I ask because my Tahoe only “dances” a hair left/right of 40 psi on the electronic gauge ? It takes miles to reach steady state temperature... but that’s all the pressure moves … This is with a Fram Ultra XG10575 and Mobil 1 EP 0w20 (70% life on OLM)
Tighter clearances on GM engines made after about 2011 mean there is more resistance to oil flow. Pressure is steady due to the feedback control system on the newer engines too. All the gory details are at
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/att...f-pf64-pf48.pdf


From the GM TSB:

"Today's engine has very tight tolerances, two stage oil pumps and high flow lubrication system
requirements. The proper match of oil filter to engine application is more important than it has
ever been in the past. The use of a replacement oil filter with an internal bypass valve opening
pressure specifications of 15 PSI (100 kPa) or less, allows debris to circulate in the engine
causing damage to bearings and other tight tolerances areas, which may result in premature
engine failure.

The oil pressure was increased to accommodate these tighter tolerances. As a result, the oil filter
specifications of the production oil filter and the service oil filter were also improved to meet the
new engine requirements."


If the engine tolerances decreased, then it sounds like they have increased oil pressure in order to achieve the same oil flow, or even maybe more oil flow through the engine. Again, the delta-p across the oil filter is a function of the oil flow rate going through it, not the oil pressure seen. You can have high oil pressure with not much flow if the engine is really "tight" tolerances. Or you could have really high oil flow without much oil pressure if the engine is really "loose" tolerances. The former would give less delta-p across the filter, and the latter would give more delta-p across the filter. The filter's bypass valve setting should be a function of what the expected max delta-p across the filter will be.

So has GM actually made the engine tolerances tighter, AND also increased oil pressure to actually make the engine flow even more oil flow then they have in the past?

"Beginning in 2012, the oil pumps began to regulate main gallery feedback instead of pump out
pressure. This means that the oil pump now does not begin to regulate until pressure is built up to
the main gallery. This change reduces the amount of time it takes to provide oil to the engine
bearing and lifters during extreme cold start conditions."


Even if the oil pressure feedback sensor for the pump was at the farthest point from the oil pump, and the oil pump was allowed to flow "unregulated" (ie, full output based on RPM), is it really putting out any more oil flow than a good old fashion positive displacement oil pump? These "two stage" oil pumps in the newer engines are still positive displacement oil pumps. They can only put out so much flow as a function of their swept physical volume and engine RPM.

Are the oil pumps on these engines really putting out a huge amount of oil flow at cold start-up engine RPM to warrant a 22 PSI bypass setting in the oil filter? If the oil filter is really restrictive, then maybe the answer is yes. Or maybe GM thinks people are going to be revving the engine up pretty good at -20F right after a cold start. But I find it really hard to believe it's because the oil pumps in these newer engines are putting out 2 times more oil flow than the older engines were. Especially when these "two stage" oil pumps on newer vehicles are used because they are designed to supposedly cut down on oil pump HP loss by flowing less oil than an old traditional PD oil pump, and are meant to help give a hair better fuel mileage.

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#4718552 - 04/06/18 04:25 PM Re: Wix updates Gen V oil filter specs - 22 PSI bypass [Re: webfors]
Patman Online   content



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 20653
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: webfors


And the 57502 not that much longer, as another option.


As it is, the PF64 sits flush with the bottom of my oil pan, so even going just the slightest bit longer makes me a little nervous, so I definitely don't want to take it one step further still smile

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