AR-15 BCG's

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My cousin is building an AR-15. He was asking my advice on a BCG. I gave him these suggestions in this order;
1) ToolCraft
2) BCM
3) APOC Armory
This is a gimme;
4) PSA
The AA looks just like a ToolCraft. When I ordered mine from PSA they told me ToolCraft "used to" make their BCG's. This was in 2015.
Opinions on a BCG?
 
As long as it is mil-spec , I would not be knowledgeable enough to say . In my mind , as long as it fits & functions well , all is good .
 
Spikes
WMD
Daniel Defense
Noveske
LMT
Yankee Hill Machine
LaRue

That's enough?

First AR, youngster, a PSA Shot peened MPI, 158 carpenter steel bolt will be fine.
 
Toolcraft is good.

That being said in my decade of AR ownership and lots of shooting, I haven't had a bolt or BCG wear out....My original AR was a CMMG Bargain Bin rifle that came with a DPMS lower. Still running to this day on the original internals.
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45

That being said in my decade of AR ownership and lots of shooting, I haven't had a bolt or BCG wear out....My original AR was a CMMG Bargain Bin rifle that came with a DPMS lower. Still running to this day on the original internals.


Exactly. Cousin should pick out whatever known quality BCG he likes the sound of when he lists his build to his buddies!
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
My cousin is building an AR-15. He was asking my advice on a BCG. I gave him these suggestions in this order;
1) ToolCraft
2) BCM
3) APOC Armory
This is a gimme;
4) PSA
The AA looks just like a ToolCraft. When I ordered mine from PSA they told me ToolCraft "used to" make their BCG's. This was in 2015.
Opinions on a BCG?


I believe PSA premium is either by ToolCraft or FN. In fact, someone posted pics of their FN branded AR-15 and the BCG looked identical in terms of markings to the PSA Premium. Anyway, PSA recently had a deal on their premium logo BCG with a mil-spec 7075 charging handle for $89.99. Without the charging handle it was $79.99/shipped. To me, this is a no brainer even though they may not look as polished as the designer brands.
 
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
My cousin is building an AR-15. He was asking my advice on a BCG. I gave him these suggestions in this order;
1) ToolCraft
2) BCM
3) APOC Armory
This is a gimme;
4) PSA
The AA looks just like a ToolCraft. When I ordered mine from PSA they told me ToolCraft "used to" make their BCG's. This was in 2015.
Opinions on a BCG?


I believe PSA premium is either by ToolCraft or FN. In fact, someone posted pics of their FN branded AR-15 and the BCG looked identical in terms of markings to the PSA Premium. Anyway, PSA recently had a deal on their premium logo BCG with a mil-spec 7075 charging handle for $89.99. Without the charging handle it was $79.99/shipped. To me, this is a no brainer even though they may not look as polished as the designer brands.

I have to agree. I ordered the PSA Premium BCG less the logo. It was $10 cheaper. I don't think my AR knows the difference. But, my wallet does.
grin.gif
 
Most civilian AR-15 shooters are not going to shoot enough ammunition through their guns for it to matter. Most ANY bolt carrier group will work well. Look for the best deal you can find. I like many, prefer an M-16 type bolt carrier group because it slows down the cyclic rate slightly. This helps reduce wear and tear on the gun. Will I shoot it enough to notice which one will "fail" first? Probably not. I also like Nickel Boron coated bolt carrier groups, because they clean up faster and easier. The less time I spend cleaning guns, the more I like it.
 
You are correct . Uncle Sugar and the " boys " may put enough rounds down the tube to wear out a BCG . Especially on FA .

Joe Civilian , like you and me , can not afford to buy or reload enough ammo to do that .

I had a " Government Model " Rock Island . A cousin wanted it , so I sold it to him for what I had in it . Shoots fine , for a GI style 1911 . ( He had leading problems with home cast bullets , so he went to Powder Coating the bullets & solved that issue . )

I think I mentioned the Tias ( Turkey ) SS " Tactical Model " I bought used . I also picked up a Tias GI Model . Not as accurate as the SS model , but what the heck , it is good enough for " social " distances .
 
I believe PSA premium is either by ToolCraft or FN. In fact, someone posted pics of their FN branded AR-15 and the BCG looked identical in terms of markings to the PSA Premium. Anyway, PSA recently had a deal on their premium logo BCG with a mil-spec 7075 charging handle for $89.99. Without the charging handle it was $79.99/shipped. To me, this is a no brainer even though they may not look as polished as the designer brands. [/quote]

I can definitely vouch for PSA premium. They are definitely high quality, made by a mil-spec manufacturer, and they do are in fact identical to a FN bolt carrier group side by side.

PSA Premium or Tool craft are definitely good to go. Spikes and BCM are good at almost twice the price, for likely the same exact bolt carrier.

I don't like the fancy coating ones. The standard ones work perfect and are in spec.
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
My cousin is building an AR-15. He was asking my advice on a BCG. I gave him these suggestions in this order;
1) ToolCraft
2) BCM
3) APOC Armory
This is a gimme;
4) PSA
The AA looks just like a ToolCraft. When I ordered mine from PSA they told me ToolCraft "used to" make their BCG's. This was in 2015.
Opinions on a BCG?


I've been using Azimuth's mil-spec dimension QPQ BCG's. They work very well, and are easy to clean, but really, any mil-spec BCG is the "easy button" answer, with Colt and BCM and LMT coming in arguably near the top.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Most civilian AR-15 shooters are not going to shoot enough ammunition through their guns for it to matter. Most ANY bolt carrier group will work well. Look for the best deal you can find. I like many, prefer an M-16 type bolt carrier group because it slows down the cyclic rate slightly. This helps reduce wear and tear on the gun. Will I shoot it enough to notice which one will "fail" first? Probably not. I also like Nickel Boron coated bolt carrier groups, because they clean up faster and easier. The less time I spend cleaning guns, the more I like it.


Gas keys can come loose in a few hundred rounds if not attached with proper hardware, properly, etc. It's not just "long-term fatigue" type longevity at stake. Rough bores will chew gas rings up, too, etc. Seen all sorts of issues from "cheap" BCG's.
 
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Originally Posted By: billt460
Most civilian AR-15 shooters are not going to shoot enough ammunition through their guns for it to matter. Most ANY bolt carrier group will work well. Look for the best deal you can find. I like many, prefer an M-16 type bolt carrier group because it slows down the cyclic rate slightly. This helps reduce wear and tear on the gun. Will I shoot it enough to notice which one will "fail" first? Probably not. I also like Nickel Boron coated bolt carrier groups, because they clean up faster and easier. The less time I spend cleaning guns, the more I like it.


Gas keys can come loose in a few hundred rounds if not attached with proper hardware, properly, etc. It's not just "long-term fatigue" type longevity at stake. Rough bores will chew gas rings up, too, etc. Seen all sorts of issues from "cheap" BCG's.

Have you ever seen a Ruger BCG? The gas key bolts are dimpled instead of being staked. The pic below is of mine. It's not in my Ruger any more. I have a TC in there now.
 
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Gas keys can come loose in a few hundred rounds if not attached with proper hardware, properly, etc. It's not just "long-term fatigue" type longevity at stake. Rough bores will chew gas rings up, too, etc. Seen all sorts of issues from "cheap" BCG's.


All of this talk about, "Properly Staked Gas Keys", amounts to a lot of nothing. Young's Manufacturing, who make some of the best, do not even stake them. And they have a good reason for not doing it.

"There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Here is our opinion and why Young Manufacturing will not stake keys. We have been making carriers since 1991. The US Mil Spec. assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked. Contrary to some popular opinions staking does not SEAL the gas key. Staking keeps the screws from backing out Period. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. We have seen plenty of staked screws that are loose or broken. The Mil Spec. also calls for the gas key bottom surface to be SEALED with Permatex gasket sealer. Something no one does to our knowledge. Here is our procedure for installing a gas key.

First clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier. Then clean the oil from the screw threads. We use break cleaner for this. Next use a very light coating of Permatex high strength thread locker gel on the bottom of the key. PN 27010. This is much easier to use than the Permatex gasket sealer. It comes in a plastic twist dispenser. Make sure you dont use so much that it squishes into the gas port hole. The cure rate is 60 minutes. Next coat the screw threads with the same gel. Install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds. Should you decide to remove the key for some reason dont use the old screws when you put the key back on! You will most likely break them during installation or when you fire the rifle. Go to the local hardware store and buy new 10-32 x ¼ SHCS. If you feel the need to stake the screws spend the money and get one of the staking tools from Brownell that uses a screw type system to swedge the material into the top of the screw. Dont use a hammer and a punch! You can stretch the thread on the screw and now you have a loose screw that will eventually break if the gun even fires. We will not warrantee a carrier with a staked key no matter who staked it. You will be charged for a new key and any labor required to remove broken screws."


https://youngmanufacturing.net/staking-the-gas-key-on-the-ar-15-and-m-16-carrier/
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Gas keys can come loose in a few hundred rounds if not attached with proper hardware, properly, etc. It's not just "long-term fatigue" type longevity at stake. Rough bores will chew gas rings up, too, etc. Seen all sorts of issues from "cheap" BCG's.


All of this talk about, "Properly Staked Gas Keys", amounts to a lot of nothing. Young's Manufacturing, who make some of the best, do not even stake them. And they have a good reason for not doing it.

"There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Here is our opinion and why Young Manufacturing will not stake keys. We have been making carriers since 1991. The US Mil Spec. assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked. Contrary to some popular opinions staking does not SEAL the gas key. Staking keeps the screws from backing out Period. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. We have seen plenty of staked screws that are loose or broken. The Mil Spec. also calls for the gas key bottom surface to be SEALED with Permatex gasket sealer. Something no one does to our knowledge. Here is our procedure for installing a gas key.

First clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier. Then clean the oil from the screw threads. We use break cleaner for this. Next use a very light coating of Permatex high strength thread locker gel on the bottom of the key. PN 27010. This is much easier to use than the Permatex gasket sealer. It comes in a plastic twist dispenser. Make sure you dont use so much that it squishes into the gas port hole. The cure rate is 60 minutes. Next coat the screw threads with the same gel. Install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds. Should you decide to remove the key for some reason dont use the old screws when you put the key back on! You will most likely break them during installation or when you fire the rifle. Go to the local hardware store and buy new 10-32 x ¼ SHCS. If you feel the need to stake the screws spend the money and get one of the staking tools from Brownell that uses a screw type system to swedge the material into the top of the screw. Dont use a hammer and a punch! You can stretch the thread on the screw and now you have a loose screw that will eventually break if the gun even fires. We will not warrantee a carrier with a staked key no matter who staked it. You will be charged for a new key and any labor required to remove broken screws."


https://youngmanufacturing.net/staking-the-gas-key-on-the-ar-15-and-m-16-carrier/

billt460, do you use YOUNG BCG's?
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
billt460, do you use YOUNG BCG's?


I have one in a Bushmaster, (pre Cerberus), 4 Rail Free Floater. It has run flawlessly. With that said, so have all my others. Young BCG's are very well made, and show few if any tool marks. Are they "necessary"? No. Are they nice and well made? Yes. The reason I brought them up is because they do not stake their bolt carrier groups. It was pertinent to the discussion.
 
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Rough bores will chew gas rings up, too, etc. Seen all sorts of issues from "cheap" BCG's.


Agree. Pretty much every low cost BCG has plenty of burrs and roughness that can be nicely cleaned up. If you can live without the nice coating and have the skills - a rough BCG can be deburred, the edges broken and polished without getting too crazy (DON'T GET THE DREMEL OUT!!). I was "forced" into this when the 10mm bolt supplied with my RMW was a hunk of junk (other than the extra machining for 10mm on the bolt face, extractor and base of carrier). There was a huge hunk of metal in the carrier bore. I had to use a couple carbon scraping tools and valve lapping compound in there, but it came out nice. I changed over to a one piece ring, mainly because the three supplied rings were ruined from the get go. Also the cam pin and the slot were terribly burred and nasty. The bolt would hardly move, now it's like butter smooth - like roller bearing smooth. So I did the same to a much lesser degree on my 5.56 and 6.8. All like butter - but seal great.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Rough bores will chew gas rings up, too, etc. Seen all sorts of issues from "cheap" BCG's.


Agree. Pretty much every low cost BCG has plenty of burrs and roughness that can be nicely cleaned up. If you can live without the nice coating and have the skills - a rough BCG can be deburred, the edges broken and polished without getting too crazy (DON'T GET THE DREMEL OUT!!). I was "forced" into this when the 10mm bolt supplied with my RMW was a hunk of junk (other than the extra machining for 10mm on the bolt face, extractor and base of carrier). There was a huge hunk of metal in the carrier bore. I had to use a couple carbon scraping tools and valve lapping compound in there, but it came out nice. I changed over to a one piece ring, mainly because the three supplied rings were ruined from the get go. Also the cam pin and the slot were terribly burred and nasty. The bolt would hardly move, now it's like butter smooth - like roller bearing smooth. So I did the same to a much lesser degree on my 5.56 and 6.8. All like butter - but seal great.


And what about the gas-keys and bolts? Staked properly with quality hardware? Are you going to replace that, or just let it surprise you when they shear? Really man, I get being frugal, but this is just being cheap when quality BCG's are so affordable and available.
 
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