Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage

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I’ve been running Quaker State Defy High Mileage in an older car with good results controlling oil seal leaks. The PQIA just released some results which were covered in a post last week. The Defy product used to advertised on the front of the bottle as having a higher level of zinc. Now the Defy brand name only shows up on the back of the bottle and while it does talk about zinc, according to tests done by the PQIA in 2014 and 2018, the zinc level has gone from 1071 ppm to 890 ppm. Anyone know the full story on why Quaker State has made that move? It’s like it’s now more in line with the other High Mileage oils.
 
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Zinc doesn't do anything for controlling seal leaks. As tribologists like MoleKule have said repeatedly, the chemistries of additives is changing over time, and many of the new anti-wear and detergent compounds will not show up on a $30 VOA/UOA. Your engine will never even notice the difference between 1000ppm and 900ppm.

Oil technology is advancing at a rate faster than our want to pay to know what's actually in it.
 
Yep, I agree zinc has nothing to do with seals, and the anti-wear additives are more sophisticated. I just get a kick out of the old QS advertising campaign that Defy will ”get rid of 98% of future wear” or something to that effect.
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Both QS Defy and M1 HM have dropped their zinc levels in the last year or so, it's been talked about before.

Why? I assume so that the IlSAC grades (20 & 30) can claim API SN rather than API SL. I assume that seeing the old SL spec may turn some people off, thinking it's old, when in fact both would meet all the modern SN quality standards except the Phos level limit.

I like ZDDP as an add as it acts as both an anti-wear agent to protect the engine metal and as an anti-oxidant to protect the oil from degrading. A little extra doesn't hurt anything, Penrite PCMOs in Australia have been using 1000 to 1200 ppm zinc for decades, with no reported problems.

Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 is a Euro Full Synthetic that carries the OEMs of BMW LL-01 and MB 229.5, yet it is "only" API SL. Castrol clearly say, it meets all the quality standards of SN, but is above the Phos limits. I believe it has about 1000ppm zinc like most long life Euro oils.

Oil burning Audi, BMW, MB, etc have been surviving for years on ~ 1000 ppm zinc oils without destroying their exhaust cats anymore than people running a GM or Honda on ILSAC levels (~ 800 ppm zinc) oils.
 
Several high mileage oils have not only gone SN, but SN/GF-5. I think Defy is one of them. Snafflefoot might remember it wasn't too terribly long ago when some of the Shell HM products (and some competitors, too) had no API markings on them whatsoever.
 
HDEO's if you still want Zn for an older flat tappet motor.

However, saying that - Chevron claims 50% less wear with their new CK4 HDEO's, even with reduced Zn for the mixed fleet crowd. Sounds like marketing to me ... Except that FedEX, UPS, the State of Cali, and many other have enough lawyers to make Chevron eat those words if it's just marketing ...

So my bet is Chevron knows what they are saying and they are using new organic AW compounds to reduce wear. I'll bet they are for real trade secrets that will take us years to unravel ...
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno


So my bet is Chevron knows what they are saying and they are using new organic AW compounds to reduce wear. I'll bet they are for real trade secrets that will take us years to unravel ...
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I would ask my contact over at Chevron... but she works in Oronite on drivetrain lubricants through.

Also, as good as Chevron is(and I would happily run Supreme or Havoline in the Toyotas I maintain even though Prii have a nasty habit of drinking oil and the MZ family V6s can turn oil into sludge despite the fact the local dealer uses Chevron in everything), they aren't kryptonite either. Ford still hasn't approved Delo for the newest Powerstrokes yet.
 
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