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Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage #4715140
04/03/18 12:28 PM
04/03/18 12:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline OP
Snagglefoot  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
Iíve been running Quaker State Defy High Mileage in an older car with good results controlling oil seal leaks. The PQIA just released some results which were covered in a post last week. The Defy product used to advertised on the front of the bottle as having a higher level of zinc. Now the Defy brand name only shows up on the back of the bottle and while it does talk about zinc, according to tests done by the PQIA in 2014 and 2018, the zinc level has gone from 1071 ppm to 890 ppm. Anyone know the full story on why Quaker State has made that move? Itís like itís now more in line with the other High Mileage oils.

Last edited by Snagglefoot; 04/03/18 12:29 PM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715159
04/03/18 12:50 PM
04/03/18 12:50 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,366
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Online happy
SubieRubyRoo  Online Happy
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,366
The land of USA-made Subies!
Zinc doesn't do anything for controlling seal leaks. As tribologists like MoleKule have said repeatedly, the chemistries of additives is changing over time, and many of the new anti-wear and detergent compounds will not show up on a $30 VOA/UOA. Your engine will never even notice the difference between 1000ppm and 900ppm.

Oil technology is advancing at a rate faster than our want to pay to know what's actually in it.

Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715170
04/03/18 01:00 PM
04/03/18 01:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline OP
Snagglefoot  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
Yep, I agree zinc has nothing to do with seals, and the anti-wear additives are more sophisticated. I just get a kick out of the old QS advertising campaign that Defy will Ēget rid of 98% of future wearĒ or something to that effect. smile

Last edited by Snagglefoot; 04/03/18 01:12 PM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715178
04/03/18 01:07 PM
04/03/18 01:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,824
In the shop
53' Stude Offline
53' Stude  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,824
In the shop
Marketing sells :^)


09' Camry LE, 141,020 miles

PP 5w30 and TG 4967
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715183
04/03/18 01:14 PM
04/03/18 01:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline OP
Snagglefoot  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
Check the address on the next posting. They must have paid Dale a few bucks for this one.

Last edited by Snagglefoot; 04/03/18 01:20 PM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715184
04/03/18 01:15 PM
04/03/18 01:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline OP
Snagglefoot  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715402
04/03/18 05:45 PM
04/03/18 05:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,625
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,625
Down Under
Both QS Defy and M1 HM have dropped their zinc levels in the last year or so, it's been talked about before.

Why? I assume so that the IlSAC grades (20 & 30) can claim API SN rather than API SL. I assume that seeing the old SL spec may turn some people off, thinking it's old, when in fact both would meet all the modern SN quality standards except the Phos level limit.

I like ZDDP as an add as it acts as both an anti-wear agent to protect the engine metal and as an anti-oxidant to protect the oil from degrading. A little extra doesn't hurt anything, Penrite PCMOs in Australia have been using 1000 to 1200 ppm zinc for decades, with no reported problems.

Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 is a Euro Full Synthetic that carries the OEMs of BMW LL-01 and MB 229.5, yet it is "only" API SL. Castrol clearly say, it meets all the quality standards of SN, but is above the Phos limits. I believe it has about 1000ppm zinc like most long life Euro oils.

Oil burning Audi, BMW, MB, etc have been surviving for years on ~ 1000 ppm zinc oils without destroying their exhaust cats anymore than people running a GM or Honda on ILSAC levels (~ 800 ppm zinc) oils.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715440
04/03/18 06:33 PM
04/03/18 06:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,934
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,934
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I usually just add some Rislone Zinc to the oil for older cars. For a 5qt system 1 oz will bump it 75 ppm so 4-5 oz will bring you up to 1100-1200 ppm SL levels with 800 ppm SN oils.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Rislone-3X-Co...13=&veh=sem


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715469
04/03/18 06:51 PM
04/03/18 06:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 438
Vermont
littleant Online content
littleant  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 438
Vermont
I noticed the change when they went to synthetic blend. Do not see it in conventional any more.


I can't prevent getting old but I REFUSE to grow up.
2010 Mountaineer 4.0
2002 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715496
04/03/18 07:19 PM
04/03/18 07:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline OP
Snagglefoot  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
Iím thinking they are planning on dropping the Defy name and the whole zinc thing.

Last edited by Snagglefoot; 04/03/18 07:21 PM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715689
04/04/18 12:04 AM
04/04/18 12:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,400
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,400
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Several high mileage oils have not only gone SN, but SN/GF-5. I think Defy is one of them. Snafflefoot might remember it wasn't too terribly long ago when some of the Shell HM products (and some competitors, too) had no API markings on them whatsoever.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot] #4715701
04/04/18 12:25 AM
04/04/18 12:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,858
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,858
Kalifornia Kollective
HDEO's if you still want Zn for an older flat tappet motor.

However, saying that - Chevron claims 50% less wear with their new CK4 HDEO's, even with reduced Zn for the mixed fleet crowd. Sounds like marketing to me ... Except that FedEX, UPS, the State of Cali, and many other have enough lawyers to make Chevron eat those words if it's just marketing ...

So my bet is Chevron knows what they are saying and they are using new organic AW compounds to reduce wear. I'll bet they are for real trade secrets that will take us years to unravel ... laugh


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: BrocLuno] #4716155
04/04/18 12:35 PM
04/04/18 12:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
California
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno


So my bet is Chevron knows what they are saying and they are using new organic AW compounds to reduce wear. I'll bet they are for real trade secrets that will take us years to unravel ... laugh

I would ask my contact over at Chevron... but she works in Oronite on drivetrain lubricants through.

Also, as good as Chevron is(and I would happily run Supreme or Havoline in the Toyotas I maintain even though Prii have a nasty habit of drinking oil and the MZ family V6s can turn oil into sludge despite the fact the local dealer uses Chevron in everything), they aren't kryptonite either. Ford still hasn't approved Delo for the newest Powerstrokes yet.

Last edited by nthach; 04/04/18 12:38 PM.

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