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#4715140 - 04/03/18 12:28 PM Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1909
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
Iíve been running Quaker State Defy High Mileage in an older car with good results controlling oil seal leaks. The PQIA just released some results which were covered in a post last week. The Defy product used to advertised on the front of the bottle as having a higher level of zinc. Now the Defy brand name only shows up on the back of the bottle and while it does talk about zinc, according to tests done by the PQIA in 2014 and 2018, the zinc level has gone from 1071 ppm to 890 ppm. Anyone know the full story on why Quaker State has made that move? Itís like itís now more in line with the other High Mileage oils.


Edited by Snagglefoot (04/03/18 12:29 PM)

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#4715159 - 04/03/18 12:50 PM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
SubieRubyRoo Offline


Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 1232
Loc: Winchester, Indiana
Zinc doesn't do anything for controlling seal leaks. As tribologists like MoleKule have said repeatedly, the chemistries of additives is changing over time, and many of the new anti-wear and detergent compounds will not show up on a $30 VOA/UOA. Your engine will never even notice the difference between 1000ppm and 900ppm.

Oil technology is advancing at a rate faster than our want to pay to know what's actually in it.

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#4715170 - 04/03/18 01:00 PM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1909
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
Yep, I agree zinc has nothing to do with seals, and the anti-wear additives are more sophisticated. I just get a kick out of the old QS advertising campaign that Defy will Ēget rid of 98% of future wearĒ or something to that effect. smile


Edited by Snagglefoot (04/03/18 01:12 PM)

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#4715178 - 04/03/18 01:07 PM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
car51 Offline


Registered: 03/12/15
Posts: 10370
Loc: Southwest PA
Marketing sells :^)
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#4715183 - 04/03/18 01:14 PM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1909
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
Check the address on the next posting. They must have paid Dale a few bucks for this one.


Edited by Snagglefoot (04/03/18 01:20 PM)

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#4715184 - 04/03/18 01:15 PM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1909
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada

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#4715402 - 04/03/18 05:45 PM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4518
Loc: Down Under
Both QS Defy and M1 HM have dropped their zinc levels in the last year or so, it's been talked about before.

Why? I assume so that the IlSAC grades (20 & 30) can claim API SN rather than API SL. I assume that seeing the old SL spec may turn some people off, thinking it's old, when in fact both would meet all the modern SN quality standards except the Phos level limit.

I like ZDDP as an add as it acts as both an anti-wear agent to protect the engine metal and as an anti-oxidant to protect the oil from degrading. A little extra doesn't hurt anything, Penrite PCMOs in Australia have been using 1000 to 1200 ppm zinc for decades, with no reported problems.

Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 is a Euro Full Synthetic that carries the OEMs of BMW LL-01 and MB 229.5, yet it is "only" API SL. Castrol clearly say, it meets all the quality standards of SN, but is above the Phos limits. I believe it has about 1000ppm zinc like most long life Euro oils.

Oil burning Audi, BMW, MB, etc have been surviving for years on ~ 1000 ppm zinc oils without destroying their exhaust cats anymore than people running a GM or Honda on ILSAC levels (~ 800 ppm zinc) oils.
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#4715440 - 04/03/18 06:33 PM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 19311
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
I usually just add some Rislone Zinc to the oil for older cars. For a 5qt system 1 oz will bump it 75 ppm so 4-5 oz will bring you up to 1100-1200 ppm SL levels with 800 ppm SN oils.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Rislone-3X-Co...13=&veh=sem
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#4715469 - 04/03/18 06:51 PM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
littleant Offline


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 407
Loc: Vermont
I noticed the change when they went to synthetic blend. Do not see it in conventional any more.
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#4715496 - 04/03/18 07:19 PM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1909
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
Iím thinking they are planning on dropping the Defy name and the whole zinc thing.


Edited by Snagglefoot (04/03/18 07:21 PM)

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#4715689 - 04/04/18 12:04 AM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24729
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Several high mileage oils have not only gone SN, but SN/GF-5. I think Defy is one of them. Snafflefoot might remember it wasn't too terribly long ago when some of the Shell HM products (and some competitors, too) had no API markings on them whatsoever.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#4715701 - 04/04/18 12:25 AM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: Snagglefoot]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5621
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
HDEO's if you still want Zn for an older flat tappet motor.

However, saying that - Chevron claims 50% less wear with their new CK4 HDEO's, even with reduced Zn for the mixed fleet crowd. Sounds like marketing to me ... Except that FedEX, UPS, the State of Cali, and many other have enough lawyers to make Chevron eat those words if it's just marketing ...

So my bet is Chevron knows what they are saying and they are using new organic AW compounds to reduce wear. I'll bet they are for real trade secrets that will take us years to unravel ... laugh
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#4716155 - 04/04/18 12:35 PM Re: Less zinc in Quaker State Defy High Mileage [Re: BrocLuno]
nthach Online   content


Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 3990
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno


So my bet is Chevron knows what they are saying and they are using new organic AW compounds to reduce wear. I'll bet they are for real trade secrets that will take us years to unravel ... laugh

I would ask my contact over at Chevron... but she works in Oronite on drivetrain lubricants through.

Also, as good as Chevron is(and I would happily run Supreme or Havoline in the Toyotas I maintain even though Prii have a nasty habit of drinking oil and the MZ family V6s can turn oil into sludge despite the fact the local dealer uses Chevron in everything), they aren't kryptonite either. Ford still hasn't approved Delo for the newest Powerstrokes yet.


Edited by nthach (04/04/18 12:38 PM)

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