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Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper #4714590
04/02/18 08:39 PM
04/02/18 08:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 210
IL
kyoo Offline OP
kyoo  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 210
IL
Hi all,

I remember reading on a different thread about how Red Line "cleanses" extra copper from the system - I was wondering how true this actually is. I left Red Line Oil 5w30 in 2 of my cars (evo, mini) for 1 year. Usually they are flushed every few months (racing). However, after leaving them in the engine for a full year, it seems they are actually coming out with more copper.

Is it correct that it isn't "true" wear? Both vehicles have been running RL 5w30 for multiple changes before this, which makes me think leaving this oil in the system does indeed corrode copper, not "pull extra" off of the bearings etc. It was mentioned that after 1 flush of this, the copper wear is supposed to go away, but I've been running it for quite some time now. Would be odd for both cars, after using a 1 year OCI, would show copper wear.

If you look at the previous runs, you'll notice overall low copper. The intervals and use (1-3k miles, autocross) have been the same, but the copper wear spiked after leaving the RL5w30 in the car for 1 year.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1511894






Last edited by kyoo; 04/02/18 08:40 PM.

06 Mitsubishi Evolution IX MR (6spd) 5w30 RL
11 BMW M3 (6spd) 5w50 RL
07 Toyota Corolla (AT) 0w20 SSO
12 Toyota Prius (CVT) 0w20 SSO
Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: kyoo] #4714628
04/02/18 09:28 PM
04/02/18 09:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,132
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,132
Fredericksburg, VA
I’ve wondered about this for a long time. I have some Redline 5W-30 and am going to put it on a corroded and shiny penny, then heat it to around 220F for at least several hours. I want to see if it will remove the corrosion on the corroded penny or cause corrosion on the shiny one or simply dissolve copper. This test with virgin oil is far from ideal. Ideally, your used oil would be tested since it has been through the ringer in your engines. If the virgin oil test shows activity toward the copper, we may be onto something. If it does not, we still cannot conclude that Redline does not show activity toward copper when used in an engine during reasonable oil change intervals. If you could do a test with your used oil, that could give us a much better test and answer.

I have done this test with virgin oils but at much higher temperatures, like 250 F to 420F. Some oils were much more corrosive to copper than others.

Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: JAG] #4714645
04/02/18 09:50 PM
04/02/18 09:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,875
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,875
Texas
1982 or older for copper? = and “shiney” …

Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: kyoo] #4714662
04/02/18 10:15 PM
04/02/18 10:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 210
IL
kyoo Offline OP
kyoo  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 210
IL
was gonna say that too; appreciate the thought and two things:

1) pure copper may be better
2) it didn't show up in frequent changes, only when it sat in red line for an extended period of time

Last edited by kyoo; 04/02/18 10:16 PM.

06 Mitsubishi Evolution IX MR (6spd) 5w30 RL
11 BMW M3 (6spd) 5w50 RL
07 Toyota Corolla (AT) 0w20 SSO
12 Toyota Prius (CVT) 0w20 SSO
Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: kyoo] #4714695
04/02/18 11:23 PM
04/02/18 11:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 80
Greece
Panos Offline
Panos  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 80
Greece
I have experienced relatively high copper (to the Blackstone averages) after leaving Mobil 1 in my engine for 27 months. But it was my first UOA...
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub..._Mo#Post4632732


Ford fiesta 1.6 mk6 Motul specific 913D/Motul Gear 300
Kawasaki ninja 250r Shell Advance Ultra 4T 10w40
Honda cbr600f Pc41 Motul 7100 10w30
Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: kyoo] #4714746
04/03/18 03:51 AM
04/03/18 03:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,132
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,132
Fredericksburg, VA
Originally Posted By: 4WD
1982 or older for copper? = and “shiney” …

Old and new pennies are copper on the outside. That’s what matters for the test. The cores of ones made since 1982 are zinc.

Originally Posted By: kyoo
was gonna say that too; appreciate the thought and two things:

1) pure copper may be better
2) it didn't show up in frequent changes, only when it sat in red line for an extended period of time

The second point is why it is much better if you do the test on your used oil, rather than I do it on virgin oil.

Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: kyoo] #4714762
04/03/18 04:40 AM
04/03/18 04:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,965
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,965
'Stralia

Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: kyoo] #4714799
04/03/18 05:42 AM
04/03/18 05:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,252
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,252
NY
Maybe protecting copper is RL's weak point?


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: kyoo] #4714898
04/03/18 07:37 AM
04/03/18 07:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,137
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,137
Michigan
Copper-based bearings are made from leaded bronze, and have a lead-tin overlay. Lead and tin don't appear in either of the oil analysis reports. Maybe the copper is from a brazed oil cooler?


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: A_Harman] #4714903
04/03/18 07:44 AM
04/03/18 07:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 210
IL
kyoo Offline OP
kyoo  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 210
IL
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: 4WD
1982 or older for copper? = and “shiney” …

Old and new pennies are copper on the outside. That’s what matters for the test. The cores of ones made since 1982 are zinc.

Originally Posted By: kyoo
was gonna say that too; appreciate the thought and two things:

1) pure copper may be better
2) it didn't show up in frequent changes, only when it sat in red line for an extended period of time

The second point is why it is much better if you do the test on your used oil, rather than I do it on virgin oil.


It's testing two different ideas - one is that RL gets more corrosive after use/time, and two, that long periods of time bathed in RL corrodes copper. It would test the first idea, but not the second. I did a TBN on one of them and it looked fine.

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Copper-based bearings are made from leaded bronze, and have a lead-tin overlay. Lead and tin don't appear in either of the oil analysis reports. Maybe the copper is from a brazed oil cooler?


I'm not sure where the copper is coming from, but no changes were made to either car over the year the oil sat in it.

Last edited by kyoo; 04/03/18 07:46 AM.

06 Mitsubishi Evolution IX MR (6spd) 5w30 RL
11 BMW M3 (6spd) 5w50 RL
07 Toyota Corolla (AT) 0w20 SSO
12 Toyota Prius (CVT) 0w20 SSO
Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: JAG] #4714916
04/03/18 08:01 AM
04/03/18 08:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,616
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,616
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: JAG

The second point is why it is much better if you do the test on your used oil, rather than I do it on virgin oil.


To know exactly what the installed oil looks like helps greatly with a UOA analysis.


Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: A_Harman] #4714919
04/03/18 08:02 AM
04/03/18 08:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,466
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,466
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Copper-based bearings are made from leaded bronze, and have a lead-tin overlay. Lead and tin don't appear in either of the oil analysis reports.


Agree - usually once you are “down to the copper” the bearings are DONE!!!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: kyoo] #4714927
04/03/18 08:11 AM
04/03/18 08:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 210
IL
kyoo Offline OP
kyoo  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 210
IL
thanks, unlikely that the bearings in both cars failed, so probably pulling copper from something else.


06 Mitsubishi Evolution IX MR (6spd) 5w30 RL
11 BMW M3 (6spd) 5w50 RL
07 Toyota Corolla (AT) 0w20 SSO
12 Toyota Prius (CVT) 0w20 SSO
Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: kyoo] #4714931
04/03/18 08:13 AM
04/03/18 08:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,875
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,875
Texas
Does it have an oil cooler?

Re: Red Line Oil, Moly, & Copper [Re: kyoo] #4714947
04/03/18 08:29 AM
04/03/18 08:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 210
IL
kyoo Offline OP
kyoo  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 210
IL
yes - oil cooler has had no change during the time, but certainly does.

actually i'm assuming all modern cars did, i'm not sure about the mini (second UOA). the evo (first UOA) does.

Last edited by kyoo; 04/03/18 08:48 AM.

06 Mitsubishi Evolution IX MR (6spd) 5w30 RL
11 BMW M3 (6spd) 5w50 RL
07 Toyota Corolla (AT) 0w20 SSO
12 Toyota Prius (CVT) 0w20 SSO
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