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Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking #4713900
04/02/18 07:50 AM
04/02/18 07:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 8
Illinois
Ambition5253 Offline OP
Ambition5253  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 8
Illinois
A few months ago I purchased a 2008 Ford Fusion SE with the 2.3l Duratec. It has a tick coming from the intake manifold area. I started to investigate and realized that the noise is coming from these flaps that sit in the intake manifold runners. They are controlled by a vacuum solenoid and open/close to better deliver power. When I take the vacuum off the solenoid, the engine is very quiet. After doing some reading in other forums, some have said to replace the solenoid and others say the entire intake manifold must be replaced. Does anyone have experience with this issue? It affects quite a few other Fords and Mazdas. I would really appreciate any advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gaD0TXOASQ - This video shows a 2.0 duratec with the same issue

Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: Ambition5253] #4713913
04/02/18 08:07 AM
04/02/18 08:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,992
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,992
Illinois
I had the same problem with a 2007 Focus. Probably the manifold needs to be replaced.


2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 61K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: Ambition5253] #4713914
04/02/18 08:08 AM
04/02/18 08:08 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
That's from reversion pulses. Normal.
But are the flaps screwed on or riveted? They can become loose and buzz then possibly fall off.

This is a major problem with just about any engine that used "tumble valves" in the IM.

Old guys will remember heat riser ticking on dodge and Kreisler in the 60s and 70s. Same effect but different location.

Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 04/02/18 08:10 AM.

2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: ARCOgraphite] #4713922
04/02/18 08:14 AM
04/02/18 08:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 8
Illinois
Ambition5253 Offline OP
Ambition5253  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 8
Illinois
Originally Posted By: tig1
I had the same problem with a 2007 Focus. Probably the manifold needs to be replaced.

I appreciate the info. Were you able to do the replacement yourself? Also nice job on getting ~225k out of your fusion so far. Does that one have the 2.3 or 3.0?

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
That's from reversion pulses. Normal.
But are the flaps screwed on or riveted?

This is a major problem with just about any engine that used "tumble valves" in the IM.

Old guys will remember heat riser ticking on dodge and Kreisler in the 60s and 70s. Same effect but different location.

The flaps seem to be part of a rod that extends through the runners. I think the rod is plastic and the flaps are part of the mold.

Last edited by Ambition5253; 04/02/18 08:16 AM.
Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: Ambition5253] #4713937
04/02/18 08:32 AM
04/02/18 08:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,992
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,992
Illinois
No problem with the Fusion, but the Focus was totaled before I got around to replacing the IM. Here is a video from a guy that just took the valves out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRXRMHl34Ho

Last edited by tig1; 04/02/18 08:34 AM.

2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 61K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: Ambition5253] #4714020
04/02/18 09:47 AM
04/02/18 09:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
On some Ford engines the IMRC runners rely on plastic bushings that keep them in place. These bushings wear out and crack after some time. They can make a noise and throw OBD codes.

Is this a factor?

Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: Ambition5253] #4714057
04/02/18 10:34 AM
04/02/18 10:34 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
Wow that IM is a piece of Junk design !


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: ARCOgraphite] #4714108
04/02/18 11:41 AM
04/02/18 11:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,992
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,992
Illinois
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Wow that IM is a piece of Junk design !


Toyotas, Hondas, and BMW have this system as well.


2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 61K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: tig1] #4714174
04/02/18 01:03 PM
04/02/18 01:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 400
Cincinnati
quint Offline
quint  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 400
Cincinnati
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Wow that IM is a piece of Junk design !


Toyotas, Hondas, and BMW have this system as well.


And Nissans....various motorcycles, and plenty others. Intake runner secondary butterflies are very common on MANY cars and bikes, going back quite a few years. it helps cold idle, affects low end torque, and affects emissions as well.

My wife was driving my 240sx on a regular basis for a while and said "The car feels sluggish lately" and I found the vacuum actuator for the secondary flaps was bad, keeping the flaps open full time when they should be pulled closed below 2500 rpm. I replaced it without telling her and she later said "Did you fix the car? It feels a lot peppier than it did".

Some people do away with the flaps and don't notice any difference. On my car, I chose to fix it because its definitely noticeable on this engine when they aren't working right.


1993 240sx convertible
2001 Sequoia
2012 Mazda 2
2012 Mazda 3 Totaled 3/16/18, R.I.P
2017 Mazda 3
2017 Kia Rio
Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: Reddy45] #4714176
04/02/18 01:04 PM
04/02/18 01:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,623
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,623
Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
On some Ford engines the IMRC runners rely on plastic bushings that keep them in place. These bushings wear out and crack after some time. They can make a noise and throw OBD codes.

Is this a factor?


Not on these. That is on the 3.8 and 4.2 V6's. The Duratech 4 cylinders you usually have to replace the intake manifold. Sometimes you can get the shutter valve separate.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: ARCOgraphite] #4714180
04/02/18 01:11 PM
04/02/18 01:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 8
Illinois
Ambition5253 Offline OP
Ambition5253  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 8
Illinois
Originally Posted By: tig1
No problem with the Fusion, but the Focus was totaled before I got around to replacing the IM. Here is a video from a guy that just took the valves out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRXRMHl34Ho

Assuming you have the 2.3 in your fusion, have you ever had problems with your runner flaps? I wonder if my intake was defective from the factory and never really looked into. As far as taking the flaps out, I wonder what the implications might be.

Originally Posted By: Reddy45
On some Ford engines the IMRC runners rely on plastic bushings that keep them in place. These bushings wear out and crack after some time. They can make a noise and throw OBD codes.

Is this a factor?

No codes at all, just the ticking. I will keep those bushings in mind. That sounds like a cheaper fix vs an entire new manifold.

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Wow that IM is a piece of Junk design !

I dont mind the plastic manifold so much as I have had them in other cars and I never had an issue. But this runner flap thing is something else...

Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: bdcardinal] #4714190
04/02/18 01:22 PM
04/02/18 01:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 8
Illinois
Ambition5253 Offline OP
Ambition5253  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 8
Illinois
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
On some Ford engines the IMRC runners rely on plastic bushings that keep them in place. These bushings wear out and crack after some time. They can make a noise and throw OBD codes.

Is this a factor?


Not on these. That is on the 3.8 and 4.2 V6's. The Duratech 4 cylinders you usually have to replace the intake manifold. Sometimes you can get the shutter valve separate.

Looks like I can get the IMRC Valve/Solenoid separately, Mazda part L301-18-741. Not sure how difficult it would be to replace but Im considering doing the manifold so it shouldn't be any worse. Do you think a new solenoid might fix the problem?

Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: Ambition5253] #4714243
04/02/18 02:22 PM
04/02/18 02:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,623
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,623
Santa Barbara, CA
The solenoid generally isn't the problem, it is the actuator valve that on a lot of cars is only serviced with the manifold.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: tig1] #4714275
04/02/18 03:07 PM
04/02/18 03:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,073
Middlesex County CT
simple_gifts Offline
simple_gifts  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,073
Middlesex County CT
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Wow that IM is a piece of Junk design !


Toyotas, Hondas, and BMW have this system as well.


Yes, but apparently their implementation doesn't need replacement.

Thankfully, that device was removed on my B2300 as part of a redesign; early duratech ranger/b2300 are littered with this as a common fix.


2004 Prius; 102K; ASL
2007 Yaris 78K 0w-40 Castrol
2006 B2300;132K;ALM


Was driving an ox cart; Now on the USS Enterprise
Re: Ford/Mazda Intake Manifold Runner Flaps Ticking [Re: Ambition5253] #4714527
04/02/18 07:27 PM
04/02/18 07:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,609
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,609
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I would make sure one is available the same day before fiddling around with the old one.
You may or may not be able to cobble a permanent fix with oilite flange bushings depending on how its put together.

I would grab a used one and play with that, once I had a good repair swap it out. I like doing this type of repair just for fun. We use to bush Q Jet throttle plate shafts this way, the repair was way better than OE,


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
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