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It's true... additive fallout is REAL! #4711225
03/30/18 07:31 AM
03/30/18 07:31 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,824
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline OP
SubieRubyRoo  Offline OP
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,824
The land of USA-made Subies!
So we've all seen the "there's crud in the bottom of my oil container" and the Pennzoil response about overbasing+sitting around leading to "deposits" in the bottom of the containers, well... here's some additional proof. I know we all will use oil indefinitely, but this supports the "shake & bake" method of oil changes.

From Machinery Lubrication:
Quote:
Engine oils have the shortest shelf life due to the heavy additive load they carry and thus should be used as quickly as possible to mitigate any problems associated with separation.

Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4711240
03/30/18 07:51 AM
03/30/18 07:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,126
Michigan
ZZman Offline
ZZman  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,126
Michigan
Yep, good idea to shake it up. Also maybe a good idea not to keep a huge stash that can sit for a long time.


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4711242
03/30/18 07:53 AM
03/30/18 07:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
A smorgasbord of speculation.

If that's your standard of "proof", you'd be a dangerous man on a jury.

(Doesn't mean additives don't fall out, of course.)

Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4711259
03/30/18 08:00 AM
03/30/18 08:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,792
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Online content
FordCapriDriver  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,792
Balearic Islands , Spain
I know a local place near me that still has Castrol RS 10W-60, the red stuff that was said to smell great when burned, i wonder how much, if any additive fallout they must have.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4711271
03/30/18 08:08 AM
03/30/18 08:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,966
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline
Snagglefoot  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,966
SE British Columbia, Canada
Id think the engine would mix it up pretty well.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4711295
03/30/18 08:25 AM
03/30/18 08:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,917
Florida, Cape Coral
Eddie Offline
Eddie  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,917
Florida, Cape Coral
Years ago General Motors put out a notice to their garages. The notice stated to not store engine oil in containers larger than 15 months of oil use due to separation. I forgot the exact wording but it suggested that oil additives separated and therefor some engines might not get the full additive package if oil was dispensed from extra large containers. Ed


CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: Snagglefoot] #4711297
03/30/18 08:27 AM
03/30/18 08:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Id think the engine would mix it up pretty well.


The article linked to is actually prompted by additive reportedly "crystallising out" in an operating V-16 engine as the oil passes through "the venturi", so no in that case.

Didn't know I had an oil venturi. Maybe I need another 13 cylinders before I get one, but I'm not bothered.

They seem to be more trouble than they're worth.

Last edited by Ducked; 03/30/18 08:57 AM.
Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: Snagglefoot] #4711312
03/30/18 08:40 AM
03/30/18 08:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,993
Chicago, IL
Brybo86 Offline
Brybo86  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,993
Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Id think the engine would mix it up pretty well.

Not if it's sitting in a lump at the bottom of the empty jug....


08 Honda Accord EX-L 2.4L M1 EP 0w20 145k
01 Kymco People 50
95 Lexus LS400 M1 AFE 0w30 193k
95 Yamaha Jog
Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4711335
03/30/18 08:51 AM
03/30/18 08:51 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,182
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline
Patman  Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,182
Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I know a local place near me that still has Castrol RS 10W-60, the red stuff that was said to smell great when burned, i wonder how much, if any additive fallout they must have.


I saw an old bottle of Mobil 1 5w30 Extended Performance at a local Partsource yesterday that said SuperSyn on it! That has to be pretty ancient, I think M1 stopped using SuperSyn at least 5 or 6 years ago didn't they?


2018 Corvette, 9k, M1 ESP Formula 5w30 & NAPA Gold
2006 Civic EX Coupe, 148k, PUP 5w20 & Fram Ultra
2010 BMW 328i X-Drive,110k, GC 0w40 & Fram Ultra

Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: Ducked] #4711343
03/30/18 08:55 AM
03/30/18 08:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,480
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,480
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Ducked
A smorgasbord of speculation.

If that's your standard of "proof", you'd be a dangerous man on a jury.

(Doesn't mean additives don't fall out, of course.)



thumbsup thumbsup


I have a number of quarts of FULL SYNTHETIC 5W30 and 10W30 I formulated and blended circa 2006 and they have had no additives go into dissolution or "settle out." (I speced an additive and worked with an additive company out on the West Coast at the time and never had any problems. Before that, I made my own additive package).


Infineum may need to rethink their formulations and specifically review how much and type of dispersant they use.


If there have been no engine performance problems reported back to SOPUS, then it may be an issue only for the
"Additive-Fallout" crowd.

Last edited by MolaKule; 03/30/18 09:03 AM.

Why are oil filters placed over chassis rails and cross members?
Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4711349
03/30/18 08:59 AM
03/30/18 08:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Sorry, V-16 engine. So another 13 cylinders. Oh, wait, the edit fixed it, though it said I was too late.

Last edited by Ducked; 03/30/18 09:02 AM.
Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: ZZman] #4711354
03/30/18 09:04 AM
03/30/18 09:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,021
Ohio
hallstevenson Offline
hallstevenson  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,021
Ohio
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Also maybe a good idea not to keep a huge stash that can sit for a long time.

Let's see if this gets any traction. If it does, a bunch of BITOGers will be in a panic, not knowing what to do with their stash of hundreds of quarts of oil. Why they think it was necessary in the first place is beyond me too.... Of course, you'll have those that say it's not true and those that say it is. Who to believe ? laugh

Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4711365
03/30/18 09:09 AM
03/30/18 09:09 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,182
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline
Patman  Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,182
Oakville, Ontario
Most people have huge stashes because they find incredibly low prices on oil, so they grab a ton of it. I can't say I blame them. We don't have massive clearout deals like that up here, so there is no need for me to build a stash. But back in the days of green GC 0w30 I had a huge stash as I was worried that they would stop importing the oil here (or reformulate it) and I was right. I had 75 or 80L of the stuff at one point and when it disappeared off the shelves I still had enough oil for a few years worth of changes.

Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: MolaKule] #4711392
03/30/18 09:29 AM
03/30/18 09:29 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,824
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline OP
SubieRubyRoo  Offline OP
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,824
The land of USA-made Subies!
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I have a number of quarts of FULL SYNTHETIC 5W30 and 10W30 I formulated and blended circa 2006 and they have had no additives go into dissolution or "settle out." (I speced an additive and worked with an additive company out on the West Coast at the time and never had any problems. Before that, I made my own additive package).


Infineum may need to rethink their formulations and specifically review how much and type of dispersant they use.


If there have been no engine performance problems reported back to SOPUS, then it may be an issue only for the
"Additive-Fallout" crowd.


MolaKule, this was mainly posted tongue-in-cheek, but also to get input from chemists/formulators. Since I've never made my own oil or additives, is overbasing a valid "excuse" for any particulate matter on the bottom of the jug? A little bit of stuff on the bottom of the jug that disappears after I shake it is of no concern to me, and like you pointed out, aside from all the Chicken Littles with pictures, there are no obscene UOAs or engine failures to report.

My take on the ML article: to help oil companies sell more engine oil.

Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: ZZman] #4711401
03/30/18 09:33 AM
03/30/18 09:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 506
NC
Matagonka Offline
Matagonka  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 506
NC
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Yep, good idea to shake it up. Also maybe a good idea not to keep a huge stash that can sit for a long time.


If you don't shake it, the engine will for ya. wink I am not worried about it a bit.

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