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#4711225 - 03/30/18 08:31 AM It's true... additive fallout is REAL!
SubieRubyRoo Offline


Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 1232
Loc: Winchester, Indiana
So we've all seen the "there's crud in the bottom of my oil container" and the Pennzoil response about overbasing+sitting around leading to "deposits" in the bottom of the containers, well... here's some additional proof. I know we all will use oil indefinitely, but this supports the "shake & bake" method of oil changes.

From Machinery Lubrication:
Quote:
Engine oils have the shortest shelf life due to the heavy additive load they carry and thus should be used as quickly as possible to mitigate any problems associated with separation.

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#4711240 - 03/30/18 08:51 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo]
ZZman Online   content


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 5839
Loc: Michigan
Yep, good idea to shake it up. Also maybe a good idea not to keep a huge stash that can sit for a long time.
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#4711242 - 03/30/18 08:53 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo]
Ducked Online   content


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4432
Loc: Taiwan
A smorgasbord of speculation.

If that's your standard of "proof", you'd be a dangerous man on a jury.

(Doesn't mean additives don't fall out, of course.)

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#4711259 - 03/30/18 09:00 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2446
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
I know a local place near me that still has Castrol RS 10W-60, the red stuff that was said to smell great when burned, i wonder how much, if any additive fallout they must have.
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#4711271 - 03/30/18 09:08 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1905
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
Id think the engine would mix it up pretty well.

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#4711295 - 03/30/18 09:25 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 9649
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
Years ago General Motors put out a notice to their garages. The notice stated to not store engine oil in containers larger than 15 months of oil use due to separation. I forgot the exact wording but it suggested that oil additives separated and therefor some engines might not get the full additive package if oil was dispensed from extra large containers. Ed
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#4711297 - 03/30/18 09:27 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: Snagglefoot]
Ducked Online   content


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4432
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Id think the engine would mix it up pretty well.


The article linked to is actually prompted by additive reportedly "crystallising out" in an operating V-16 engine as the oil passes through "the venturi", so no in that case.

Didn't know I had an oil venturi. Maybe I need another 13 cylinders before I get one, but I'm not bothered.

They seem to be more trouble than they're worth.


Edited by Ducked (03/30/18 09:57 AM)

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#4711312 - 03/30/18 09:40 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: Snagglefoot]
Brybo86 Offline


Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 2956
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Id think the engine would mix it up pretty well.

Not if it's sitting in a lump at the bottom of the empty jug....
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#4711335 - 03/30/18 09:51 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: FordCapriDriver]
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 20475
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I know a local place near me that still has Castrol RS 10W-60, the red stuff that was said to smell great when burned, i wonder how much, if any additive fallout they must have.


I saw an old bottle of Mobil 1 5w30 Extended Performance at a local Partsource yesterday that said SuperSyn on it! That has to be pretty ancient, I think M1 stopped using SuperSyn at least 5 or 6 years ago didn't they?
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#4711343 - 03/30/18 09:55 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: Ducked]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19133
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Ducked
A smorgasbord of speculation.

If that's your standard of "proof", you'd be a dangerous man on a jury.

(Doesn't mean additives don't fall out, of course.)



thumbsup thumbsup


I have a number of quarts of FULL SYNTHETIC 5W30 and 10W30 I formulated and blended circa 2006 and they have had no additives go into dissolution or "settle out." (I speced an additive and worked with an additive company out on the West Coast at the time and never had any problems. Before that, I made my own additive package).


Infineum may need to rethink their formulations and specifically review how much and type of dispersant they use.


If there have been no engine performance problems reported back to SOPUS, then it may be an issue only for the
"Additive-Fallout" crowd.


Edited by MolaKule (03/30/18 10:03 AM)

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#4711349 - 03/30/18 09:59 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo]
Ducked Online   content


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4432
Loc: Taiwan
Sorry, V-16 engine. So another 13 cylinders. Oh, wait, the edit fixed it, though it said I was too late.


Edited by Ducked (03/30/18 10:02 AM)

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#4711354 - 03/30/18 10:04 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: ZZman]
hallstevenson Offline


Registered: 04/25/17
Posts: 414
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Also maybe a good idea not to keep a huge stash that can sit for a long time.

Let's see if this gets any traction. If it does, a bunch of BITOGers will be in a panic, not knowing what to do with their stash of hundreds of quarts of oil. Why they think it was necessary in the first place is beyond me too.... Of course, you'll have those that say it's not true and those that say it is. Who to believe ? laugh

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#4711365 - 03/30/18 10:09 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: SubieRubyRoo]
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 20475
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Most people have huge stashes because they find incredibly low prices on oil, so they grab a ton of it. I can't say I blame them. We don't have massive clearout deals like that up here, so there is no need for me to build a stash. But back in the days of green GC 0w30 I had a huge stash as I was worried that they would stop importing the oil here (or reformulate it) and I was right. I had 75 or 80L of the stuff at one point and when it disappeared off the shelves I still had enough oil for a few years worth of changes.

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#4711392 - 03/30/18 10:29 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: MolaKule]
SubieRubyRoo Offline


Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 1232
Loc: Winchester, Indiana
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I have a number of quarts of FULL SYNTHETIC 5W30 and 10W30 I formulated and blended circa 2006 and they have had no additives go into dissolution or "settle out." (I speced an additive and worked with an additive company out on the West Coast at the time and never had any problems. Before that, I made my own additive package).


Infineum may need to rethink their formulations and specifically review how much and type of dispersant they use.


If there have been no engine performance problems reported back to SOPUS, then it may be an issue only for the
"Additive-Fallout" crowd.


MolaKule, this was mainly posted tongue-in-cheek, but also to get input from chemists/formulators. Since I've never made my own oil or additives, is overbasing a valid "excuse" for any particulate matter on the bottom of the jug? A little bit of stuff on the bottom of the jug that disappears after I shake it is of no concern to me, and like you pointed out, aside from all the Chicken Littles with pictures, there are no obscene UOAs or engine failures to report.

My take on the ML article: to help oil companies sell more engine oil.

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#4711401 - 03/30/18 10:33 AM Re: It's true... additive fallout is REAL! [Re: ZZman]
Matagonka Online   content


Registered: 02/03/15
Posts: 470
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Yep, good idea to shake it up. Also maybe a good idea not to keep a huge stash that can sit for a long time.


If you don't shake it, the engine will for ya. wink I am not worried about it a bit.

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