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#4711019 - 03/29/18 10:41 PM Cafe Requirements
Wolf359 Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 4486
Loc: MA
So now it seems like they're going to announce new CAFE numbers, but California and 12 other states might stick with the old numbers.

But CAFE is the Corporate average fuel economy so what I don't understand is how one company can have two average fuel economy numbers for two different regions when by definition, an average is one number.

I suppose they sell their gas guzzlers in the other set of states that don't require CA specs? But you could probably still register them if you move into that state? Anyway, seems like a very tricky setup.

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#4711022 - 03/29/18 10:44 PM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359]
JLTD Offline


Registered: 12/15/17
Posts: 380
Loc: US
Sounds to me like CA and their buddies will only allow the sale of certain vehicles that achieve the standard?


[edit: political statement removed]


Edited by JLTD (03/29/18 10:44 PM)
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#4711031 - 03/29/18 10:54 PM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359]
dishdude Offline


Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 8510
Loc: Phoenix
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#4711032 - 03/29/18 10:56 PM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 5714
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
But you could probably still register them if you move into that state?


I have wondered for years when Cali will put a stop to this. I'm surprised it's gone on this long.

I still say at some point in the future only "California emissions" vehicles will be allowed to be registered there.
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#4711036 - 03/29/18 11:04 PM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 3475
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
California gets a special blend of gasoline that is only used in California. They have been like this for year. They consider themselves a separate entity in many ways.

So people living there have to ask why is it so expensive living here vs everywhere else?
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#4711075 - 03/30/18 12:47 AM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 38999
Loc: 'Stralia
Ca gets to define what's a "ZEV"...when to my mind, the only ZEV is one sitting on cinderblocks with no wheels.

But then it's ZE, but no V.

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#4711081 - 03/30/18 12:54 AM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: dishdude]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2745
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: dishdude


Fuel efficiency and emissions are not the same thing.

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#4711084 - 03/30/18 01:02 AM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Reddy45]
dishdude Offline


Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 8510
Loc: Phoenix
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Originally Posted By: dishdude


Fuel efficiency and emissions are not the same thing.


Yet both are vitally important.
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#4711085 - 03/30/18 01:03 AM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Shannow]
Wolf359 Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 4486
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Ca gets to define what's a "ZEV"...when to my mind, the only ZEV is one sitting on cinderblocks with no wheels.

But then it's ZE, but no V.


Well technically ZEV would be an electric car as it wouldn't have any emissions although if you burn gas or coal to make electricity, it's just shifted to a different location. Pzev are also interesting, too bad they don't make more of them, I think they lose a little money making them so they just make enough to meet requirements. Most people don't even seem to know when the have a pzev but one thing that's nice about them is that certain emissions related items are covered for 15/150k.

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#4711086 - 03/30/18 01:04 AM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 38999
Loc: 'Stralia

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#4711087 - 03/30/18 01:05 AM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: PimTac]
Wolf359 Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 4486
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: PimTac
California gets a special blend of gasoline that is only used in California. They have been like this for year. They consider themselves a separate entity in many ways.

So people living there have to ask why is it so expensive living here vs everywhere else?


Technically that's true in many areas, they all have their own special blend to meet the smog specs for a particular area. Makes it hard to shift gas when there's a shortage from one area to another because there's so many variations between one area and another.

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#4711089 - 03/30/18 01:20 AM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: dishdude]
Nick1994 Offline


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 9830
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted By: dishdude


Some people don't want any improvement in anything. They want to drive old polluting stick shift gas guzzling cars from the 80's. Don't need innovation for our power grid with solar and wind power. That's what coal is for!
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#4711090 - 03/30/18 01:24 AM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Nick1994]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2745
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: dishdude


Some people don't want any improvement in anything. They want to drive old polluting stick shift gas guzzling cars from the 80's. Don't need innovation for our power grid with solar and wind power. That's what coal is for!


Or you could be decent enough to assume that those you disagree with are looking at the issue with some amount of nuance.

I have yet to find a topic in our society that has only 2 paths.

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#4711092 - 03/30/18 01:27 AM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Nick1994]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 38999
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: dishdude


Some people don't want any improvement in anything. They want to drive old polluting stick shift gas guzzling cars from the 80's. Don't need innovation for our power grid with solar and wind power. That's what coal is for!


No, there was a smog issue that they identified with HC, CO, and NOx, and went after it...has nothing to do with CAFE. It's important not to get the two confused, however some people LIKE to get the two confused (like China's visual pollution) to prove a point

Regarding the last two sentences...when those first two mentioned technologies (plus the third technology that enables them) work together in providing all that a grid needs, you can diss the latter as old and irrelevant.

at present, the purveyors of unicorn answers disregard the things that those technologies FAIL to provide, especially in a world of electrified transport, while demonising coal.

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#4711093 - 03/30/18 01:44 AM Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Nick1994]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6024
Loc: Texas/International
Oh yeah man, those darn cars from the 80ís are so thick on our roads one canít imagine why folks said they were bad cars
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