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Cafe Requirements #4711019
03/29/18 10:41 PM
03/29/18 10:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,137
MA
Wolf359 Online content OP
Wolf359  Online Content OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,137
MA
So now it seems like they're going to announce new CAFE numbers, but California and 12 other states might stick with the old numbers.

But CAFE is the Corporate average fuel economy so what I don't understand is how one company can have two average fuel economy numbers for two different regions when by definition, an average is one number.

I suppose they sell their gas guzzlers in the other set of states that don't require CA specs? But you could probably still register them if you move into that state? Anyway, seems like a very tricky setup.

Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359] #4711022
03/29/18 10:44 PM
03/29/18 10:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,031
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,031
US
Sounds to me like CA and their buddies will only allow the sale of certain vehicles that achieve the standard?


[edit: political statement removed]

Last edited by JLTD; 03/29/18 10:44 PM.

I'm a thickie; but a 20 has its place.

I use AMSOIL

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 138k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 41k, OE 5w20/Wix

Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359] #4711031
03/29/18 10:54 PM
03/29/18 10:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,032
Phoenix
dishdude Offline
dishdude  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,032
Phoenix


2018 Challenger SRT
Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359] #4711032
03/29/18 10:56 PM
03/29/18 10:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
But you could probably still register them if you move into that state?


I have wondered for years when Cali will put a stop to this. I'm surprised it's gone on this long.

I still say at some point in the future only "California emissions" vehicles will be allowed to be registered there.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359] #4711036
03/29/18 11:04 PM
03/29/18 11:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,361
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,361
Soviet State of Washington
California gets a special blend of gasoline that is only used in California. They have been like this for year. They consider themselves a separate entity in many ways.

So people living there have to ask why is it so expensive living here vs everywhere else?


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359] #4711075
03/30/18 12:47 AM
03/30/18 12:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,825
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,825
'Stralia
Ca gets to define what's a "ZEV"...when to my mind, the only ZEV is one sitting on cinderblocks with no wheels.

But then it's ZE, but no V.

Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: dishdude] #4711081
03/30/18 12:54 AM
03/30/18 12:54 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,149
USA
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,149
USA
Originally Posted By: dishdude


Fuel efficiency and emissions are not the same thing.

Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Reddy45] #4711084
03/30/18 01:02 AM
03/30/18 01:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,032
Phoenix
dishdude Offline
dishdude  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,032
Phoenix
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Originally Posted By: dishdude


Fuel efficiency and emissions are not the same thing.


Yet both are vitally important.


2018 Challenger SRT
Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Shannow] #4711085
03/30/18 01:03 AM
03/30/18 01:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,137
MA
Wolf359 Online content OP
Wolf359  Online Content OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,137
MA
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Ca gets to define what's a "ZEV"...when to my mind, the only ZEV is one sitting on cinderblocks with no wheels.

But then it's ZE, but no V.


Well technically ZEV would be an electric car as it wouldn't have any emissions although if you burn gas or coal to make electricity, it's just shifted to a different location. Pzev are also interesting, too bad they don't make more of them, I think they lose a little money making them so they just make enough to meet requirements. Most people don't even seem to know when the have a pzev but one thing that's nice about them is that certain emissions related items are covered for 15/150k.

Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Wolf359] #4711086
03/30/18 01:04 AM
03/30/18 01:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,825
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,825
'Stralia

Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: PimTac] #4711087
03/30/18 01:05 AM
03/30/18 01:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,137
MA
Wolf359 Online content OP
Wolf359  Online Content OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,137
MA
Originally Posted By: PimTac
California gets a special blend of gasoline that is only used in California. They have been like this for year. They consider themselves a separate entity in many ways.

So people living there have to ask why is it so expensive living here vs everywhere else?


Technically that's true in many areas, they all have their own special blend to meet the smog specs for a particular area. Makes it hard to shift gas when there's a shortage from one area to another because there's so many variations between one area and another.

Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: dishdude] #4711089
03/30/18 01:20 AM
03/30/18 01:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,679
Phoenix, AZ
Nick1994 Offline
Nick1994  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,679
Phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted By: dishdude


Some people don't want any improvement in anything. They want to drive old polluting stick shift gas guzzling cars from the 80's. Don't need innovation for our power grid with solar and wind power. That's what coal is for!


2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 84k Mobil 1 AFE 0w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 230k Valvoline 5w30 & Fram Ultra
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 147k Mobil 1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Nick1994] #4711090
03/30/18 01:24 AM
03/30/18 01:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,149
USA
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,149
USA
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: dishdude


Some people don't want any improvement in anything. They want to drive old polluting stick shift gas guzzling cars from the 80's. Don't need innovation for our power grid with solar and wind power. That's what coal is for!


Or you could be decent enough to assume that those you disagree with are looking at the issue with some amount of nuance.

I have yet to find a topic in our society that has only 2 paths.

Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Nick1994] #4711092
03/30/18 01:27 AM
03/30/18 01:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,825
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,825
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: dishdude


Some people don't want any improvement in anything. They want to drive old polluting stick shift gas guzzling cars from the 80's. Don't need innovation for our power grid with solar and wind power. That's what coal is for!


No, there was a smog issue that they identified with HC, CO, and NOx, and went after it...has nothing to do with CAFE. It's important not to get the two confused, however some people LIKE to get the two confused (like China's visual pollution) to prove a point

Regarding the last two sentences...when those first two mentioned technologies (plus the third technology that enables them) work together in providing all that a grid needs, you can diss the latter as old and irrelevant.

at present, the purveyors of unicorn answers disregard the things that those technologies FAIL to provide, especially in a world of electrified transport, while demonising coal.

Re: Cafe Requirements [Re: Nick1994] #4711093
03/30/18 01:44 AM
03/30/18 01:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,986
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,986
Texas
Oh yeah man, those darn cars from the 80s are so thick on our roads one cant imagine why folks said they were bad cars

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