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#4709409 - 03/28/18 10:09 AM racing oil for a bigger flat tappet
BudgetRacer Offline


Registered: 03/27/18
Posts: 5
Loc: Canada
[color:#33CC00]Hey guys thanks for letting me on here..I have been doing some research etc (please excuse my ignorance if not enough research was done) and I am just wondering about your thoughts as the Rotella T4 for a race oil? or perhaps pour in a additive to make the T4 better?
Could this happen?

[color:#009900]Trucks that might see 3000RPMs max.....all you Rotella fan boys out there running it in a race motor....put a motor on a Dyno.....run it at 7500RPMs and drain the oil right away and tell me how many air bubbles you see in it compared to a real race oil....

You might get away with Rotella at the drag strip but, if you put it in a motor and go do some track days lapping sessions with it, your results will probably be different that the guys at the Drag Strip.



I am thinking of getting the Amsoil stuff but bucks are down..
I am in Canada and I assume the T4 has a good ZDDP level.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/rotell...87930p.html#srp

I am a drag race guy so the car would mostly be 6-10 second bursts (and burnout time) and idling etc to warm it up...it isn't a ultra fast car..

this is the car/YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd51XLUxZeQ[/color][/color]


Edited by BudgetRacer (03/28/18 10:11 AM)
_________________________
1970 Monte Carlo 468 BBC big flat tappet cam requiring ZDDP
hear it running https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd51XLUxZeQ
at the track recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTDk1i51g9k&t=6s

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#4709434 - 03/28/18 10:33 AM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2450
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
I would suggest Valvoline VR1 20W-50, many hot BBC's all over the world running it, however if the engine doesn't properly warm up i wouldn't be able to say if it's ideal for you.
It's a Group II Dino with 1300ppm of Zddp and mets API SM and ACEA A3/B4, as far as Dino 20W-50s go it's probably the best one out there.
That being said i have never heard of anybody having engine issues with Rotella!
Then you have the Amsoil Z-ROd series which is a safe bet, i believe they have a 15W-50 or 20W-50, ofcourse full synthetic.
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50.
1988 Ford Escort MkIV 1.6 Xr3i Cabrio, - Comma X-Flow XS 10W-40.
1999 Peugeot 106 II 1.1 Max, On standby

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#4709452 - 03/28/18 10:47 AM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
dogememe Offline


Registered: 04/15/17
Posts: 712
Loc: SF BAY AREA, CA
Valvoline VR1 (conventional) or Royal Purple HPS (synthetic)


Edited by dogememe (03/28/18 10:48 AM)
_________________________
1997 Suburban 5.7 ~214K Miles, VWB 5W-30, VO-55, Personal.
2007 Crown Vic P71 4.6 ~124K Miles, VAS 5W-30, RP 20-820, Personal.
2010 Escape 2.5 ~75K Miles, VAS 5W-30, Wix 51348, Rented on Turo.

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#4709513 - 03/28/18 11:48 AM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
BudgetRacer Offline


Registered: 03/27/18
Posts: 5
Loc: Canada
Thanks guys, I like the Amsoil dominator racing oil. The price is good for a premium oil but it is still $140 per case of 12..

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/racing/dominator-10w-30-racing-oil/
_________________________
1970 Monte Carlo 468 BBC big flat tappet cam requiring ZDDP
hear it running https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd51XLUxZeQ
at the track recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTDk1i51g9k&t=6s

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#4709596 - 03/28/18 12:58 PM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2450
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
I would give VR1 a try then.
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50.
1988 Ford Escort MkIV 1.6 Xr3i Cabrio, - Comma X-Flow XS 10W-40.
1999 Peugeot 106 II 1.1 Max, On standby

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#4709838 - 03/28/18 05:13 PM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24729
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
If you want the VR-1, I'm loathe to say it, but Walmart Canada does have VR-1 in 20w-50 at a very attractive price, all the time. Well, heck froze over, here I am shilling a 20w-50 for Walmart. wink
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#4709850 - 03/28/18 05:22 PM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: FordCapriDriver]
krismoriah72 Offline


Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 1577
Loc: wv
Rotella t4 has no issues in ATV/UTV use with a wet clutch and racing conditions of 4 stroke motorcyles. Also Harleys and just about any engine that you can have fun with.

What makes your engine different?

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#4709851 - 03/28/18 05:22 PM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1909
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
This fellow was thinking about throwing in some M1 VTwin. Could chuck it in with the T4. Do don't have cat's right? T4 is not SN rated.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4708333/Re:_Mix_1_Quart_of_M1_VTwin_20#Post4708333

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#4709852 - 03/28/18 05:23 PM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6540
Loc: Texas
Heard something similar wrt outboards but folks here defend HDEO as the only cure all oil …

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#4709855 - 03/28/18 05:25 PM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1909
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
Here's your T-4 in 15-40.


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#4709911 - 03/28/18 06:28 PM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6186
Loc: Waco, TX
I ran Shell Rotella T-4 .. 15W-40 in my turbo drag car, it always held up great!
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4709945 - 03/28/18 07:01 PM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5621
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
OK, this is always a conundrum. The HDEO's have the right ZDDP chemistry for your cams and lifters. The issues are related to metallurgy, hardness, and surface prep (lifter radii and curvature). If all that is OK, the oil is good enough - as long as it does not foam excessively... If there is a foaming issue, you will have to step up to Redline or some other high anti-foam oil ...

Real race motors that have to do laps have either a large sump and very effective windage tray, or are dry sump. Either will give the oil time to "settle" before returning to duty through the pump.

Adding an oversized filter will help as it also gives some additional dwell time to settle the oil. You can have bubbles outside the media, but what usually goes through the media is liquid.

So you need to describe your motor a bit more thoroughly before we can help too much ...

RPM envelope? What are the rod and main clearances? What size is the sump? How effective is your windage tray (screen, louvers, etc.) Do you tow to the track, or drive it in? Do you you have an oil cooler? How is it plumbed? Remote oil filter?

So on a drag car one of the issues is oil temp ... Usually the oil is to cold at the start and over temp at the end of the run (maybe). So monitoring sump temps is always a good idea. I like to see 150*F oil temp rolling into the water box and <300*F at the big end.

The bearing clearances determine the oil grade required. No point in running cool to cold 50 grade and trying to keep the oil pump drive happy unless you are running aluminum rods (50 is pretty much mandatory for Al rods) ...

So there is a lot of thinking we need to do. But we need to start out with the build info ...
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4709974 - 03/28/18 07:40 PM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
Dyusik Offline


Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 2005
Loc: US-WA
Originally Posted By: BudgetRacer

[i]Trucks that might see 3000RPMs max.....all you Rotella fan boys out there running it in a race motor....put a motor on a Dyno.....run it at 7500RPMs and drain the oil right away and tell me how many air bubbles you see in it compared to a...

Who is this oblivious person? Face palm statement of the day.
Fearing bubbles sounds like a demon from a kiddie cartoon, that is also afraid of glitter and kittens. Pickup tube is well below the surface of the oil. If foaming occurs, the oil will reflect light much more and will look creamy brown (or whatever the color, green, purple etc).
Not a fanboy, but here is a match to the claim.
At 4-15 k rpm, plus gears of a tranny the oil gets thrown around a bit more than a dino run. This is done for hours on end. Any foam (bubbles) present in the sump would have been visible on gas stops. Nope.

Thanks for a laugh though.
_________________________
95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30,XG8
07 IS250 97K FB ?w??,FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40,XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 18K VR1 20w50,1515
14 RX450h 30k PP 0w20,NAPAG

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#4710023 - 03/28/18 08:26 PM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
BudgetRacer Offline


Registered: 03/27/18
Posts: 5
Loc: Canada
Hey guys, great to hear the knowledge! I will try to answer the questions

RPM envelope? around 1000-6500 rpm

What are the rod and main clearances? mains 1-4=.0025 3=.003 Rods .0025
What size is the sump?it is a wet system? with around a 7 quart with a high pressure pump. It does have a trap door in the pan but no wind age tray. I use a Baldwin oil filter around 1 quart
How effective is your windage tray (screen, louvers, etc.) I think it is OK I wanted to install a a windage tray that I had but it didn't fit the oil pan. The trap door does help control the oil. When I used the "molases" Pennzoil GT stuff
The valvespring pressure is Seat Pressure: 135 lbs @1.875 Open Pressure: 395 lbs @1.225
Do you tow to the track, or drive it in? Do you you have an oil cooler? How is it plumbed? Remote oil filter? I tow it to the track (old style flat towing lol) no oil coolers etc..

Yes I was wondering about the foaming issues as well (it was a old post from Yellow Bullet from someone else), I think that is generally is assembly issue like the pickup distance not being proper..you would really have to buzz that thing to cause the oil to foam..like Pro stock rpm..

The Amsoil is interesting..my engine is just a basic bracket BBC so I wonder if the suggestions above would work just as well..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTOiW9A0Pvs

I also found a can of EOS from around 2008 is this the good stuff?
_________________________
1970 Monte Carlo 468 BBC big flat tappet cam requiring ZDDP
hear it running https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd51XLUxZeQ
at the track recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTDk1i51g9k&t=6s

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#4710292 - 03/29/18 08:33 AM Re: racing oil for a bigger flat tappet [Re: BudgetRacer]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1909
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
By the way, I noticed you’re from Canada. T4 is on sale at Canadian tire until April 5.

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