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Motor oil and Turbo's #4709212
03/28/18 05:59 AM
03/28/18 05:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,065
MA.
Camprunner Offline OP
Camprunner  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,065
MA.
Back in the 1980's the big deal was that a turbocharged engine would "cook" the motor oil esp on shut down after a hard drive. Is this still a concern with modern oil and modern engines? And over time will the turbo in a modern engine cause modern oils to get so hot that it creates engine deposits from the high temps?

Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Camprunner] #4709214
03/28/18 06:03 AM
03/28/18 06:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,452
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Offline
Kamele0N  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,452
Slovenia EU
Modern engines have additional electric pumps wich help to cool down turbo after a shutdown...either via engine oil...antifreeze or both combined...


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Elf FullTech FE 5w30
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Camprunner] #4709229
03/28/18 06:20 AM
03/28/18 06:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,027
PA,US
HemiHawk Offline
HemiHawk  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,027
PA,US
Like KameleON said, most have gotten much better. For one, oils have gotten better to deal with the extreme temps. And most modern turbos have electric pumps to continue cycling coolant through the turbo after shutoff.

My SRT neon had a "turbo timer" which would keep the engine running for a bit after shutting off to continue cycling oil. My SRT caliber had the water pump, and so now does my GTI. In my VWs manual is still recommends letting the car idle for a period of time after hard driving, even with that electric pump.

I basically always wait 30 seconds or so before shutting down.


2016 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
2017 VW GTI sport
1995 Mustang GTS
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Camprunner] #4709242
03/28/18 06:34 AM
03/28/18 06:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,562
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,562
New England
I think I read that my turbo was designed to have a slow gravity feed of coolant and/or oil after shutdown to help avoid coking...I actually don't know exactly where the turbo is without looking it up, but I think it sits pretty low in the engine.
I also hear a pump running sometimes after I shut down, but I don't know if that's for the turbo.

dexos1 Gen 2 actually has a test for turbo deposits, another reason I look for that standard on the oils I buy. HTO-06 probably covers that too, but for an earlier generation of turbo (2.3l in the Acura RDX introduced in 2007) and I'm not sure how many makers are still testing for this standard...some people like that used oil must be tested to get this approval.


2014 Forester XT, 95000 miles
Last Change;
M1 0W30 AFE d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Camprunner] #4709263
03/28/18 06:57 AM
03/28/18 06:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 35
Florida
Tiir Offline
Tiir  Offline
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 35
Florida
There's a simpler method that doesn't require a electric water pump; this is done by moving the highest point of the coolant system off the radiator to another small reservoir that now has the "radiator cap" above the turbo - via convection it draws cooler coolant as the coolant in the turbo bearing pack starts to boil off when the engine is shut down - the technical term is called thermal siphoning. The bearings really never get hotter than the boiling point of coolant which is around 250f -/+ with a 50/50 coolant mix.

Here is a white paper on it from Garrett

https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga...ter_Cooling.pdf

Last edited by Tiir; 03/28/18 06:58 AM.

2017 WRX STI - Sold
2017 ES300h - Sold

2016 Lexus GS F
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Tiir] #4709279
03/28/18 07:14 AM
03/28/18 07:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,562
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,562
New England
Originally Posted By: Tiir
There's a simpler method that doesn't require a electric water pump; this is done by moving the highest point of the coolant system off the radiator to another small reservoir that now has the "radiator cap" above the turbo - via convection it draws cooler coolant as the coolant in the turbo bearing pack starts to boil off when the engine is shut down - the technical term is called thermal siphoning. The bearings really never get hotter than the boiling point of coolant which is around 250f -/+ with a 50/50 coolant mix.

Here is a white paper on it from Garrett

https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga...ter_Cooling.pdf


Great post! Thanks for the info.
I would guess this is what I interpreted as a gravity feed in my engine, but it sounds like it's really thermally driven.


2014 Forester XT, 95000 miles
Last Change;
M1 0W30 AFE d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Camprunner] #4709290
03/28/18 07:27 AM
03/28/18 07:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline
Alex_V  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Short answer: yes, manufacturers have improved turbo lubrication and cooling so the average consumer (that doesn't read or comprehend the owner's manual) doesn't kill them quite as quickly. A turbo will still put more stress on the oil, but between oil chemistry improvement and the afore mentioned engine design changes a modern turbocharged car is not inherently fragile.

Last edited by Alex_V; 03/28/18 07:28 AM.

To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Camprunner] #4709292
03/28/18 07:29 AM
03/28/18 07:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,118
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,118
Kalifornia Kollective
And, in the old days they mounted turbo's so the oil drain was not vertical out the bottom. Very important. So they would have the oil drain clocked at whatever angle was convenient for MFG. But that allowed oil to collect and sit there in the turbo bearing cavity and cook.

All modern turbos have the oil drain directly out the bottom so they empty. The only oil to "cook" is the residual film in the bearing.

If you've let it idle while parking or maneuvering, it's cool enough to be fine. Just don't go up hill at 1,200*F (EGT) and then just shut it off ...

Last edited by BrocLuno; 03/28/18 07:30 AM.

Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: BrocLuno] #4709302
03/28/18 07:38 AM
03/28/18 07:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,709
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,709
Idaho
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
And, in the old days they mounted turbo's so the oil drain was not vertical out the bottom. Very important. So they would have the oil drain clocked at whatever angle was convenient for MFG. But that allowed oil to collect and sit there in the turbo bearing cavity and cook.

All modern turbos have the oil drain directly out the bottom so they empty. The only oil to "cook" is the residual film in the bearing.

If you've let it idle while parking or maneuvering, it's cool enough to be fine. Just don't go up hill at 1,200*F (EGT) and then just shut it off ...
This !!!


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Camprunner] #4709313
03/28/18 07:43 AM
03/28/18 07:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,063
TX, USA
JMJNet Offline
JMJNet  Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,063
TX, USA
Depends on what kind of cars or trucks? Whether it is designed properly or not.

Last edited by JMJNet; 03/28/18 07:44 AM.

  • 2017 Toyota Sienna
  • 1995 GMC Suburban 6.5L Turbo Diesel


Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Camprunner] #4709329
03/28/18 07:53 AM
03/28/18 07:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,103
SW Ontario Canada
KGMtech Offline
KGMtech  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,103
SW Ontario Canada
Oils and Turbo's have improved significantly since the 1980's. I never had a turbo problem with my 2004 Passat in 14 years of ownership and I never, ever bothered to let it idle before shutting down. Kendall GT1 full synthetic 5W40 for virtually all 14 years.

I guess the only people who might need that "cool down" advice would have to have a residence with a 35% grade x 100+ foot driveway before the garage?


2017.5 Nissan Rogue SV FWD
2013 Nissan Maxima SV
2009 Ford Flex SEL FWD
1984 Yamaha XJ750RL
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Camprunner] #4709397
03/28/18 08:58 AM
03/28/18 08:58 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,298
Easton, PA
lexus114 Offline
lexus114  Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,298
Easton, PA
what i don't understand is. my lexus nx is turbocharged and lexus STILL recommends a 10,000 mile oi change interval?


2017 Mercedes-Benz C300 4matic coupe 2.0 turbo
2016 Lexus RX 350 Autumn Shimmer AWD
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: lexus114] #4709480
03/28/18 10:17 AM
03/28/18 10:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,193
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,193
US-WA
Originally Posted By: lexus114
what i don't understand is. my lexus nx is turbocharged and lexus STILL recommends a 10,000 mile oi change interval?


That engine is stressed [with me driving]. If you don't trust them, take a sample, look to see if it is oxidized beyond reasonable level after 10k. I'm ok with 10k oci, but my engine rus (if at all) with little stress just supplementing the electric chariot.


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 104K STP syn HM 10w30, FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40, XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 21K VR1 20w50, NG1515
14 RX450h 37k Idemitsu 0w20, 57047
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Dyusik] #4709505
03/28/18 10:39 AM
03/28/18 10:39 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,298
Easton, PA
lexus114 Offline
lexus114  Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,298
Easton, PA
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
Originally Posted By: lexus114
what i don't understand is. my lexus nx is turbocharged and lexus STILL recommends a 10,000 mile oi change interval?


That engine is stressed [with me driving]. If you don't trust them, take a sample, look to see if it is oxidized beyond reasonable level after 10k. I'm ok with 10k oci, but my engine rus (if at all) with little stress just supplementing the electric chariot.



yes, i have a blackstone kit in my tool box. so when i change it, it will be sent out...


2017 Mercedes-Benz C300 4matic coupe 2.0 turbo
2016 Lexus RX 350 Autumn Shimmer AWD
Re: Motor oil and Turbo's [Re: Camprunner] #4709518
03/28/18 10:56 AM
03/28/18 10:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 35
Florida
Tiir Offline
Tiir  Offline
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 35
Florida
Originally Posted By: lexus114
what i don't understand is. my lexus nx is turbocharged and lexus STILL recommends a 10,000 mile oi change interval?



Your Lexus NX is also one of the modern vehicle that states in the manual for high load driving e.g steep hills, race track, or towing a trailer that a idle time is recommended for approximately 1 minute - it's at page 139 of your owners manual.


2017 WRX STI - Sold
2017 ES300h - Sold

2016 Lexus GS F
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