Pennzoil 10w40 - 1,200mi - 04 Mazda RX-8 Rotary

[Artem]

Purchased this RX-8 with a dead engine. After rebuilding it at home, this is my break-in run to help flush out the block.

Car is daily driven 45 miles round trip, mostly highway, so I rack up the miles quick, changing the oil practically every 2 weeks or so.

The capacity is 7 quarts but only 4 drain out during an oil change due to the engine having TWO (2) oil coolers, which hold a bunch of oil along with the oil lines, etc. I do a quick drain n fill, leaving the oil filter on to continue doing it's job. Takes me 5 mins. No big deal.

Not sure how long to run it... these engines are hard on oil and I beat the snot out of it daily. I just want it to last, since these fail due to Lubrication related wear on the Apex Seals. Any recommendations? Haha.

Previous 600 mile runs were on Valvoline 10w40 conventional from Autozone clearance.

 

[Linctex]

I have always read to never use synthetics in Mazda rotary engines

 

[Linctex]

https://www.google.com/search?q=never+us...+rotary+engines

https://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/synthetc.htm

http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/performance/rotary-tech-tips/synthetic-oils.html

 

[Dyusik]

Do you run two stroke oil to help lube the combustion chamber? If I had a rotary, that would be something I'd do. With this much oil being left behind, filtration would be also a concern. Also, I'd go through Polaris for analysis to keep tabs on oxidation and things.

 

[Dyusik]

Originally Posted By: Linctex

https://www.google.com/search?q=never+us...+rotary+engines

https://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/synthetc.htm

http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/performance/rotary-tech-tips/synthetic-oils.html




Funny, there is a mention of residue. A pure(er) base vs VII loaded one would be cleaner burning, wouldn't it?
The fear of synthetics never made sense to me, this is also widely feared by many motorcycle peeps, " your clutch will [insert assumption]".

 

[Number_35]

Gorgeous car! I've heard that rotaries have greatly improved rotor apex seal life if 2-stroke oil is added to the fuel. I'm not sure what the recommended ratio would be, but I'm sure there's lots of good advice out there.

 

[Chris142]

Many rotary guys add 2 stroke oil to the fuel to lube the apex seals.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: Number_35
Gorgeous car! I've heard that rotaries have greatly improved rotor apex seal life if 2-stroke oil is added to the fuel. I'm not sure what the recommended ratio would be, but I'm sure there's lots of good advice out there.


Originally Posted By: Chris142
Many rotary guys add 2 stroke oil to the fuel to lube the apex seals.


I actually use a Rotary specific Pre-Mix Lube added at the recommended 0.5oz per gallon of fuel to help with Apex Seal Lubrication.

I dump 7.5oz with every 13 gallon fill up.

Would love do to a standalone lube injection but those things are expensive. I figured with frequent oil changes + Pre-Lube, the engine should last a good while for me to enjoy my investment / time.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: Dyusik
Do you run two stroke oil to help lube the combustion chamber? If I had a rotary, that would be something I'd do. With this much oil being left behind, filtration would be also a concern. Also, I'd go through Polaris for analysis to keep tabs on oxidation and things.


See previous reply about using Rotary specific Pre-Lube that I add to the fuel @ 0.5oz per gallon.

You know, I thought about adding an Amsoil bypass filtration kit, to make sure the oil is super clean and free of particles... haven't pulled the trigger on it yet.

 

[Brybo86]

Greg24, do you see how shiny that Mazda is?

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
I have always read to never use synthetics in Mazda rotary engines


Originally Posted By: Linctex

https://www.google.com/search?q=never+us...+rotary+engines

https://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/synthetc.htm

http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/performance/rotary-tech-tips/synthetic-oils.html


Not sure what the big deal would be. There are several guys on the RX-8 forum using Mobil 1 0w40 for a long time. They haven't posted anything negative yet.

As long as it burns clean, I don't think it matters.

I can understand if using a high end synthetic which was designed to resist break down in the Rotary engine that this could cause build up, etc to occur due to the oil not wanting to burn cleanly.

I'm sticking to conventional for now but some Rotary engine builders suggest a synthetic blend. Take the route down the middle they say. haha.

 

[Killer223]

i miss my 06 Shinka, i sold mine with just over 180K on it, ran awesome and lived on supertech 10/40 and TCW3 oil in the fuel. was an amazing car.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Curious, what sort of oil temps does this thing see during spirited driving? With how often you change the oil, nothing wrong with conventional (other than perhaps deposits depending on heat), but I think a lot of the theories about not running synthetic in rotaries has been disproven these days. I used to be into rotaries, and the few guys I still follow on Instagram with built turbo rotaries all run synthetic. Maybe the Renesis is different?

Nice car.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Curious, what sort of oil temps does this thing see during spirited driving? With how often you change the oil, nothing wrong with conventional (other than perhaps deposits depending on heat), but I think a lot of the theories about not running synthetic in rotaries has been disproven these days. I used to be into rotaries, and the few guys I still follow on Instagram with built turbo rotaries all run synthetic. Maybe the Renesis is different?

Nice car.


Sizzling oil temps, probably, hence the need for two oil coolers. I haven't installed an oil temp gauge yet. I just closely monitor coolant temps via a Scan Gauge II mounted on the dash.

I'm all pro for synthetic, if I can find one that burns clean. It would obviously offer better protection, so it's a no brainer. Cost would be the only downside for me. The current 10w40 conventional I picked up on clearance costs $2 a quart. It would be hard for me to dump synthetic every few thousand miles @ $8-9 a quart.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Run a rotery spec oil

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Sizzling oil temps, probably, hence the need for two oil coolers. I haven't installed an oil temp gauge yet. I just closely monitor coolant temps via a Scan Gauge II mounted on the dash.

I'm all pro for synthetic, if I can find one that burns clean. It would obviously offer better protection, so it's a no brainer. Cost would be the only downside for me. The current 10w40 conventional I picked up on clearance costs $2 a quart. It would be hard for me to dump synthetic every few thousand miles @ $8-9 a quart.


Check out Delo XSP 5W-40. It’s their new full syn SN/CK-4 oil. It’s a standard group 3 oil unlike M1 and Castrol 0W-40 so may burn cleaner. Plus it’s $20 a gallon at Walmart.

 

[d00df00d]

Few comments:


On synthetics in rotaries, there's very little info available from good sources, so most people who talk about this are just lobbing ideas and claims back and forth. However, two things seem to be clear:

1. The main problem is when you run a certain kind of synthetic AND drive the car mildly. Take away one of those factors and the problem should go away.

2. If you want to run a synthetic, you'll want one with a "mild" additive pack but very good self-cleaning and detergency. Base stock doesn't seem to matter so much, but ester could help significantly.

3. The main argument against a synthetic isn't so much that it'll cause problems. It's that synthetics are expensive and/or unlikely to make the engine last longer. Remember, these engines need short OCIs regardless of the oil you use, so you can't expect to offset the cost with longer OCIs.

More on that if anyone cares.


On premixing (i.e. adding 2-stroke oil to the fuel): This is something race teams do, and a lot of people THINK it helps a street-driven rotary engine. But no one has ever provided EVIDENCE that it helps. Everything is anecdotes and "it makes sense" etc.


Same goes for the standalone lube system, i.e. the Sohn adapter. The idea makes sense, and has plenty of supporters. But there's no real evidence that it makes the engine last longer.


Something to always keep in mind about the Renesis engine: The failure rate is so high, it's gotta be due to design and/or manufacturing issues. That means you shouldn't expect engine oil choice or other "longevity" hacks to make a difference. Best to focus on the low-hanging fruit: no short trips, warm it up gently, don't hypermile it, use an oil that meets the standards in the owner's manual, change it frequently, and stay on top of maintenance -- especially ignition and cooling.

 

[Artem]

Good to see a fellow Wankel give some user insight.

Like I said in the first post, I don't mind throwing a jug of $12 conventional oil at this engine every 1,000 miles of enjoyment if I have too. That's under $50 per 3,000 miles to drive what is basically an exotic at this point, seeing as this engine is unlike anything else on the road.

As long as it doesn't fail unexpectedly from catastrophic sudden compression loss, I only see oil being the next culprit for wear on the rotors. I stocked up on a bunch of 10w40 during clearance sales just to use in this car. My oil change cost is practically chump change @ $2 a quart and only needing 4.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Good to see a fellow Wankel give some user insight.

Like I said in the first post, I don't mind throwing a jug of $12 conventional oil at this engine every 1,000 miles of enjoyment if I have too. That's under $50 per 3,000 miles to drive what is basically an exotic at this point, seeing as this engine is unlike anything else on the road.

As long as it doesn't fail unexpectedly from catastrophic sudden compression loss, I only see oil being the next culprit for wear on the rotors. I stocked up on a bunch of 10w40 during clearance sales just to use in this car. My oil change cost is practically chump change @ $2 a quart and only needing 4.


I think that's a good approach given that you have a bunch of it and a quick drain/fill is a 5 minute job.

 

[Artem]

I did install some DIY Longevity hacks while rebuilding. For instance, it has a lower temp water thermostat and the radiator cooling fans turn on sooner BEFORE the coolant skyrockets into the 220s. Also a RX-8 performance coil bracket in hopes of extending the life of the coils. Not that $250 is too much to pay for spark plugs and coils every 30k miles as part of routine maintenance.

It's s high maintenance car. I've accepted that fact.