Mix 1 Quart of M1 VTwin 20-50 Oil with M1 0-40 Oil

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
97
Location
Michigan
Hello All,

We are using 0-40 M1 Euro oil for some track cars we have (BMW E30, Early 80s Celica, Miata and Volvo). My concern is the oil is possibly too thin for really hot days and I'm worried about Shearing and overall Oil Pressure. The Moly/Zink PPM is 1000/1100.

Should I add a quart of M1 VTwin 20-50 oil to our mix? The Moly/Zink PPM is 1600/1750 which is very close to the M1 Racing Oil Specs and it is of course thicker, which would help us on very hot days. I don't know if the Motorcycle Oil with it's Wet Clutch additives would be bad for our car or would somehow not mix well with the car oil?

Another option is to add a quart of M1 Diesel Oil.

What do you guys think? Thanks for the help!

Ben
 
Adding only 1 quart should be fine. It is hard to tell if the oil film in critical areas is bottoming out, so a guess for sure. Viscosity does create a thicker oil film in more parts of the engine, so its safe to do.

Probably better to just put in 100% M1 15w50 made for cars, like they recommend for high-performance Corvette track cars. Mixing those 2 you mention should be fine. I think the VTwin oil has an HTHS around 6, so you'd be boosting your overall HTHS from about 3-ish to around 4 with that mixing.

HTHS definition: high temperature, high shear viscosity, which governs how thick hydrodynamic oil films are inside your engine. Also, more of your engine avoids metal-to-metal contact among the bearing surfaces (rings, cams, crank, chain, all) the more hths you have.
 
Last edited:
Run pure Valvoline VR1 oil and be done with it! M1 is junk these days... use a real race oil instead of a CAFE approved, EPA loving, Toyota Camry oil!
 
Originally Posted By: bennybigb
Hello All,

We are using 0-40 M1 Euro oil for some track cars we have (BMW E30, Early 80s Celica, Miata and Volvo). My concern is the oil is possibly too thin for really hot days and I'm worried about Shearing and overall Oil Pressure. The Moly/Zink PPM is 1000/1100.

Should I add a quart of M1 VTwin 20-50 oil to our mix? The Moly/Zink PPM is 1600/1750 which is very close to the M1 Racing Oil Specs and it is of course thicker, which would help us on very hot days. I don't know if the Motorcycle Oil with it's Wet Clutch additives would be bad for our car or would somehow not mix well with the car oil?

Another option is to add a quart of M1 Diesel Oil.

What do you guys think? Thanks for the help!

Ben


Either flavor won;t hurt a thing.

Welcome to the BITOG Blenders Society. Been doing it for almost 25 years and never an issue.
 
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Run pure Valvoline VR1 oil and be done with it! M1 is junk these days... use a real race oil instead of a CAFE approved, EPA loving, Toyota Camry oil!
You know they make a 10w60, which would be perfect in your hot-rod Tucson Korean car. Only woosies would use less viscosity.
 
VR1 is not a synthetic oil, I still want extreme temperature protection.

They used to sell Synthetic VR1, but I don't see that stuff for sale anymore
frown.gif
 
Here is the M1 spec. Is there something wrong with it? Better let the Nascar guys know.

Specifications and approvals
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is recommended for a wide range of race engine applications. Note: Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is not recommended for street use.

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is recommended for a wide range of race engine applications including highly loaded flat tappet designs such as NASCAR Cup engines.
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is designed for use by professional, amateur and weekend racers.
Mobil 1 Racing oils are not recommended for 2-Cycle or aviation engines, unless specifically approved by the manufacturer.
Technical details
SAE Grade 0W-50
Viscosity (ASTM D 445)
cST @ 40ºC 100
cST @ 100ºC 17.2
Viscosity Index 189
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
HTHS Viscosity, mPa s at 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -54
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 221
Density at 15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: bennybigb
VR1 is not a synthetic oil, I still want extreme temperature protection.

They used to sell Synthetic VR1, but I don't see that stuff for sale anymore
frown.gif



I'd still bet it holds up better than that M1 will...
 
Originally Posted By: BAJA_05
I guess a 05 Hyundai and a 08 Subaru are top of the line also???? LOL


Not getting your sarcasm or point?? I never said anything I have is top of the line, they are my commuter cars and get treated very well though
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Here is the M1 spec. Is there something wrong with it? Better let the Nascar guys know.

Specifications and approvals
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is recommended for a wide range of race engine applications. Note: Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is not recommended for street use.

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is recommended for a wide range of race engine applications including highly loaded flat tappet designs such as NASCAR Cup engines.
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is designed for use by professional, amateur and weekend racers.
Mobil 1 Racing oils are not recommended for 2-Cycle or aviation engines, unless specifically approved by the manufacturer.
Technical details
SAE Grade 0W-50
Viscosity (ASTM D 445)
cST @ 40ºC 100
cST @ 100ºC 17.2
Viscosity Index 189
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
HTHS Viscosity, mPa s at 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -54
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 221
Density at 15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85


I'm curious as to why the HTHS is relatively weak for such a thick oil? There are oils out there that are 40 weights with roughly that same HTHS. (for instance, Amsoil 0w40 with a viscosity of 14.8 cst at 100c has an HTHS of 3.76) I would think an oil that thick would have an HTHS closer to 4.2 or 4.3.
 
Why not just use M1 15w-50 to begin with? On the bottle it says it's specifically for racing engines. I'm not a Mobil fan but if you wanted Mobil there is your solution.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: bennybigb
VR1 is not a synthetic oil, I still want extreme temperature protection.

They used to sell Synthetic VR1, but I don't see that stuff for sale anymore
frown.gif

Neither is the Mobil 1. - It's JUST SEMI. Not saying bad or good as ELF studies on F1 blends showed a semi blend to work better. Now, Blends of WHAT IDK. I used M1R 4T decade ago to boost HTHS and adds, but it went non-synthetic as it is formulated today.
 
Wow, I thought Mobil 1 was a very good inexpensive synthetic oil, apparently that is not the case?

What would be a better option for a reasonably priced, readily available synthetic oil suitable for the track?

Thanks for all the info thus far!
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Here is the M1 spec. Is there something wrong with it? Better let the Nascar guys know.

Specifications and approvals
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is recommended for a wide range of race engine applications. Note: Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is not recommended for street use.

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is recommended for a wide range of race engine applications including highly loaded flat tappet designs such as NASCAR Cup engines.
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is designed for use by professional, amateur and weekend racers.
Mobil 1 Racing oils are not recommended for 2-Cycle or aviation engines, unless specifically approved by the manufacturer.
Technical details
SAE Grade 0W-50
Viscosity (ASTM D 445)
cST @ 40ºC 100
cST @ 100ºC 17.2
Viscosity Index 189
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
HTHS Viscosity, mPa s at 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -54
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 221
Density at 15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85


I'm curious as to why the HTHS is relatively weak for such a thick oil? There are oils out there that are 40 weights with roughly that same HTHS. (for instance, Amsoil 0w40 with a viscosity of 14.8 cst at 100c has an HTHS of 3.76) I would think an oil that thick would have an HTHS closer to 4.2 or 4.3.


As I've said time again (not to you Patman), this much vaunted oil is one of those unicorns, just like TGMO, which has a specific set of desired outcomes.

Wants to be labelled a 50, wants to provide the drag of a 40, so theymess around with basestocks and polymers to get what you see there...really, not that much better for the OP's problem.

Seriously the OP would be better (IMO) with M1 Racing 4T 10W40.
https://www.mobil.com/english-au/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/glxxmobil1-racing-4t

Narrows up the viscosity spread.
Thinner than the 0W50 at 40C.
HTHS over 4 (per the Amsoil test linked below).
Good shear stability (per Amsoil test below)

http://www.oil-tech.com/amsoil-pdf-files/motorcycle-oil-comparison.pdf

As to the plan of doping 0W40 with V-Twin...if you've already got the oils, then do it.

M1 V-Twin is essentially a monograde (Harman Index), so will help with the OP's aim.
 
I thought M1 15W50 was their "go to" high viscosity racing oil, but I see now that it is not labelled as racing specific and also has lower ZDDP than their racing oils. At least the zinc level is higher than in the 0W40...
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I thought M1 15W50 was their "go to" high viscosity racing oil, but I see now that it is not labelled as racing specific and also has lower ZDDP than their racing oils. At least the zinc level is higher than in the 0W40...
The Mobil1 Product Guide https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf says its for racing.

Also, note GM says Corvettes need it for racing. And Fords says Mustangs that race need similar 5w50. All thats needed is decent synthetic basestocks with a little extra HTHS to support the oil film at higher temperatures. Its plenty for about any engine out there.

A lot of engineering and experience behind it, so safe to use.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top