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Re: Making an old skid steer last? [Re: nyquil_junkie] #4707493 03/26/18 12:54 PM
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DriveHard Offline
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Originally Posted By: nyquil_junkie
Quote:
Run a modern hydraulic fluid of the weight equivalent to the engine oil you are using now. I think that would be around a ISO 100

I don't see any ISO 100 but is this stuff suitable?

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produc...il?cm_vc=-10005

It says the SAE Viscosity is 10W30. If I can find what they call UNiversal Tractor Fluid of that ISO is that good?

Odd thing, the skid steers tank label says use only 10W40, the operators manual says use Dextron ATF. I don't know why they don't agree on that. What was in it when I got it looks and smells like motor oil not ATF. ATF s a lot thinner than motor oil so that one really confused me. Why suggest ATF in the book but label the tank to take 10W40?

Quote:
Do not turn up the charge pump pressure unless you want reduced performance.


There is no way to turn it up on this thing as far as I see. It just has the book specs of what is the normal range, so I stuck an oil gauge on it as the pressure sensor and buzzer doesn't work, (I put it on like the service manual says to for testing, on the pressure sensor line) the spec says its suppose to go off )the buzzer and the light) under 50PSI. The spec range of the charge pump says between 90-150 PSI so... I watch the gauge. I was under the impression that midway between 90-150 would be optimal but as long as it runs about 110-120 all the time, I guess I won't worry about it. I'm not too proud to admit I have really no idea what that charge pressure is or means. All I know is the book says "between 90-150". LOL

Quote:
If there is not a low loop problem, the charge pressure is just fine.


I wouldn't know if it did... what are the signs of a low loop problem? As far as I can tell it runs perfectly fine, no struggle digging or lifting or driving. Works like a bear for as old as it is. Let me know what that is and I'll watch for it.

Quote:
I think you might need an oil with ZDDP in it.


My thinking was this thing is old, oils are different than they were back in the 70s, so what it was getting with 70s era motor oil is probably not what its getting with 21st century motor oil. Thus my questions and confusion.





You can get ISO 100 hydraulic fluid most anywhere...although now that you mention it says you can use ATF, I would steer you to a lighter grade hydraulic fluid...maybe a ISO 68 max...maybe even a 46? I would run a hydraulic fluid over a UTF.

https://www.theisens.com/products/iso-100-extra-heavy-hydraulic-fluid-2-gallons/921545/

It sounds like your charge pressure is just fine, so don't mess with it. What engine speed did you measure it at? It will be higher at higher engine speeds.

Low loop problems are hard to detect until it is too late...and you get catastrophic damage. If you are measuring it to be ok, I would not worry about it.

If you are interested in learning about your charge circuit...or any of the hydraulics for that matter, just let me know.


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Re: Making an old skid steer last? [Re: DriveHard] #4712172 03/31/18 09:04 AM
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zeng Offline
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Originally Posted By: DriveHard
Run a modern hydraulic fluid of the weight equivalent to the engine oil you are using now. I think that would be around a ISO 100. That should be more shear stable...although would effect your cold temp operation if you use it during the winter very much...were you may have to switch to a lighter grade in the winter months. I would never suggest motor oil in a hydraulic system.

In a dedicated hydraulic circuit,I totally concur with the use of hydraulic oil over engine oil as it is the suitable choice.

I'm not familiar with this L325, probably OP or any knowledgeable member can point to whether the said oil is being used in this L325 Wheel Spindle And Drive Gears compartment as follows:


If the answer is:
a)no,hydraulic oils IS the suitable oils to use ; or
b)yes, choice of hydraulic oils is not suitable. Instead universal hydraulic transmission or HDEO may be used. However I would personnally prefer Transmission Oil SAE 30 meeting say, Caterpillar TDTO specifications in this context .

Re: Making an old skid steer last? [Re: nyquil_junkie] #5210206 09/11/19 02:58 PM
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nyquil_junkie Offline OP
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I didn't see this to reply but better late than never....

Yea the hydro oil tanks are where the drive chains and gears are immersed.

Lately the little thing has been running hot after 15 min and losing pressure from 115psi down to about 60 when it starts to get weak. I changed the oil in the tanks with new 10w40 but it didn't help. So on a lark I dumped a half gallon of MotorKote in the tanks and it runs cooler now, we rarely run it longer than a half hour but I was moving hay with it for about 90 min the other day and the pressure stayed right on 110 +/- a few # the whole time and the tanks stayed cool.

So... musta been some old age friction going on in the pumps or something. If it was ready to die I figured there was nothing to lose right? It seems to have worked fine. The drive chains seem to work quieter and smoother now too.

Re: Making an old skid steer last? [Re: nyquil_junkie] #5215701 09/17/19 11:48 PM
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zeng Offline
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Originally Posted by nyquil_junkie

Yea the hydro oil tanks are where the drive chains and gears are immersed.
The bold suggests a requirement for a GL4 'speced' lubricants, such as :
a)conventional Manual Transmission Fluid, or
b)HDEO (which is more shear stable than PCMO's or multigrades) oils, or
c)Universal Transmission Tractor Fluids or
d)possibly some Universal Hydraulic Fluid (that claims being suitable for use in gear trains),
...... all of which above mentioned, are suitable for your hydraulic applications , and hence replacing the need for dedicated Hydraulic Oils (which in itself, without Oil company expressed claim ) is not quite suitable for the gears and chains system .

Stay away from Universal Hydraulic Fluids or dedicated Hydraulic Fluids that does NOT claim as suitable in gear trains applications ,which typically never carry a GL4 claim.

Quote
Lately the little thing has been running hot after 15 min and losing pressure from 115psi down to about 60 when it starts to get weak. I changed the oil in the tanks with new 10w40 but it didn't help.

At similar work load or output, the oil that runs hot after typically 5 - 8 hours (in your case, 15 minutes) of operation is broadly due to (unacceptable) inadequate operating viscosity . Period.

Too low an operating viscosity is likely caused by 'too high' an operating temperature than necessary/acceptable, particularly resulting from the use of 'too low' an oil viscosity grade specifically its value of [email protected]*C ( not quite [email protected]*C) .
Besides, a higher operating Coefficient of Friction (due to lack of friction 'reducing' additives within the oil) leads to a higher increase of oil temperature .

Quote
So on a lark I dumped a half gallon of MotorKote in the tanks and it runs cooler now, we rarely run it longer than a half hour but I was moving hay with it for about 90 min the other day and the pressure stayed right on 110 +/- a few # the whole time and the tanks stayed cool.

I do not know anything about MotorKote , but would speculate nonetheless it did NOT significantly thicken the oil, to such a degree sufficient to noticeably reduce operating temperature of the oil in this application of yours .
I believe this cooler running oil is being helped by MotorKote's friction reducing additives like Mo/Boron/Ti/AW etc .
Reduced Coefficient of Friction,likely in your context, leads to reduced generation of frictional heat/loss.
IMHO, a thick GL4 would be adequate to replace MotorKote's role .

Quote
So... musta been some old age friction going on in the pumps or something. If it was ready to die I figured there was nothing to lose right? It seems to have worked fine. The drive chains seem to work quieter and smoother now too.


I believe the cooler running oil is not substantially related to pump and its performance, not saying pump has no role in heat reduction.
Instead inadequate operating viscosity promotes pump leakage, which is a source of heat generation in the oil.

Just my 2cents

Edit:Viscosity-related fluid drag friction or base oil-related traction coefficient is irrelevant in your 'problem' .It's about Minimum Oil Film Thickness (MOFT) .

Last edited by zeng; 09/18/19 12:04 AM.
Re: Making an old skid steer last? [Re: nyquil_junkie] #5219131 09/21/19 07:33 PM
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nyquil_junkie Offline OP
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Seems like sound advice... thanks!

The tanks are marked "use only 10w40 motor oil". But thats a 40+ yr old spec so.... ther is probably room for a better oil they didn't have back then.

Quote
I do not know anything about MotorKote , but would speculate nonetheless it did NOT significantly thicken the oil, to such a degree sufficient to noticeably reduce operating temperature of the oil in this application of yours


Motorkote doesn't thicken the oil.... the claim is it is a lubricant not an oil and all it does is somehow bewitch the metals to be..... more slippery.... a friction reducer.

Next time it starts misbehaving I'll swap all the motor oil out for a decent hydro fluid as you suggest. For now, its being its oldself again.


Last edited by nyquil_junkie; 09/21/19 07:37 PM.
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