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Filthy Winchester .44Spl? #4706431
03/25/18 02:28 PM
03/25/18 02:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline OP
JHZR2  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
I shoot a lot of .38 Spl in a variety of S&W revolvers. Then I shoot .44 Spl in a Ruger GP100. Its fun to shoot, if a bit more expensive.

Recently I got some Winchester Super X target .44 Spl ammo. This stuff is smoky and filthy. Worse than any cheap ammo that ranges sometimes force you to buy.

Any idea how to get details on what's in it so that I can avoid it? For example, if this is what Winchester 231 is like, its NOT what I desire to reload with...

MagTech and Fiocci are nowhere near this filthy or smoky, granted they're not LFN bullets.




Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: JHZR2] #4706449
03/25/18 02:56 PM
03/25/18 02:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,315
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,315
Iowegia - USA
How much ash or unburnt propellant was let in the cylinder or barrel?

I don't know what Winchester uses, but there are cleaner and better (more complete combustion) burning propellants out there for reloading.


Reading is fundamental; understanding requires Study and an Open Mind.
Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: JHZR2] #4706473
03/25/18 03:24 PM
03/25/18 03:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 828
US
bunnspecial Offline
bunnspecial  Offline
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 828
US
Often times, the big ammo companies don't use canister powders. They buy lots of powder that are well characterized but don't act like cannister powders, and then test/adjust to get the results they want with that powder lot.

Win 231/HP38 is a fairly clean burning powder. That looks more like the kind of mess you get from Unique-aka Flaming Dirt.

Last edited by bunnspecial; 03/25/18 03:25 PM.

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Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: JHZR2] #4706504
03/25/18 03:47 PM
03/25/18 03:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline OP
JHZR2  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
Just to be clear, these were NOT reloads. This was factory ammo, and if this is what Winchester Super X results in, no thanks...

I dont recall using this specific Winchester ammo before in any caliber (shotgun shells aside).

But I do intend to reload .44 spl; so Ill likely use polymer coated bullets and something that burns MUCH cleaner. This is a mess the likes of which Ive not seen on any revolver I own, with any other ammo...

Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: JHZR2] #4706556
03/25/18 04:40 PM
03/25/18 04:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 954
MO
FirstNissan Offline
FirstNissan  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 954
MO
Nice revolver, awful ammo however! That amount of buildup is a joke. I used to shoot quite a bit of .38 special magtech and UMC, not at all like what you have pictured. I personally would get a bit paranoid about that much residue, would probably force me to start shooting with gloves.


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Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: FirstNissan] #4706580
03/25/18 04:58 PM
03/25/18 04:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline OP
JHZR2  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: FirstNissan
Nice revolver, awful ammo however! That amount of buildup is a joke. I used to shoot quite a bit of .38 special magtech and UMC, not at all like what you have pictured. I personally would get a bit paranoid about that much residue, would probably force me to start shooting with gloves.


Yeah it is. No mess on the hands. Not a ton on the top strap either. Burn rings clean easily with ballistol.

So I think it's just that this "target" ammo is filthy. Just want to be sure I'm not using that powder when I reload.

I know that lead bullets get a wax coating, and that wax can burn/smoke a bit. I don't really shoot waxed lead bullets, other than .22. I can't imagine this mess is due to wax though...

Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: JHZR2] #4706592
03/25/18 05:10 PM
03/25/18 05:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,147
Glendale, Arizona
It's not the powder. If these were non jacketed lead bullets, then most of the filth you experienced was due to bullet lubricant burning off, not "dirty" gun powder. Cast or swaged lead bullets are FILTHY. No matter who loads them, or if you do yourself. Or what type of powder you load them with. There are a number of indoor ranges that prohibit their use because it's almost like shooting black powder.

If you purchase and shoot ANY jacket .44 Special loads, you will see how much cleaner they shoot. Back when I was younger, and shooting on a limited budget, I cast and shot my own bullets. But no longer. You don't save that much, and as you discovered.... They're FILTHY.

Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: JHZR2] #4706705
03/25/18 06:48 PM
03/25/18 06:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,310
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Marco620 Offline
Marco620  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,310
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
The Winchester 45LC dirty too. Can your wheelgun shoot .44MAG? If so, shoot the Mags last to blow all the crud out. I like the Flitz brand borecleaner. Works well to clean er up.


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Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: billt460] #4706711
03/25/18 06:53 PM
03/25/18 06:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline OP
JHZR2  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: billt460
It's not the powder. If these were non jacketed lead bullets, then most of the filth you experienced was due to bullet lubricant burning off, not "dirty" gun powder. Cast or swaged lead bullets are FILTHY. No matter who loads them, or if you do yourself. Or what type of powder you load them with. There are a number of indoor ranges that prohibit their use because it's almost like shooting black powder.

If you purchase and shoot ANY jacket .44 Special loads, you will see how much cleaner they shoot. Back when I was younger, and shooting on a limited budget, I cast and shot my own bullets. But no longer. You don't save that much, and as you discovered.... They're FILTHY.


The Magtech I shoot are FMJ. The Fiocchi are SJHP which Im sure helps too.

Like I mentioned, the only waxed lead bullets I shoot are .22 which don't make such a mess.

When I reload, I'll use poly coated. Ive shot enough .45 and 9mm Federal Syntech to be convinced on the coated bullet.

Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: Marco620] #4706713
03/25/18 06:53 PM
03/25/18 06:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline OP
JHZR2  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,158
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Marco620
The Winchester 45LC dirty too. Can your wheelgun shoot .44MAG? If so, shoot the Mags last to blow all the crud out. I like the Flitz brand borecleaner. Works well to clean er up.


No. GP100 is .44 special only.

Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: bunnspecial] #4707156
03/26/18 06:44 AM
03/26/18 06:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,220
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,220
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Often times, the big ammo companies don't use canister powders. They buy lots of powder that are well characterized but don't act like cannister powders, and then test/adjust to get the results they want with that powder lot.


That's very true.

Re: Filthy Winchester .44Spl? [Re: JHZR2] #4708135
03/27/18 05:52 AM
03/27/18 05:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,534
Pennsylvania
Slick17601 Offline
Slick17601  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,534
Pennsylvania
Very normal for lubed lead bullets.


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