97 4L60E 213K Miles ~ P1870 Code, Hard 1-2 Shift

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Should I bite the bullet and buy a whole tranny, or is it worth trying to just replace the valve body? Research shows that part should solve the problem, I only drove about 50miles with the problem happening so I doubt I ruined the rest of the trans in the process, but even with a rebuilt valve body I still have a 4L60E with questionable maintenance history and over 213K on it... by the time I pay labor to have the valve body installed, fluid/filter kit, and buy the part, I'm like $500 into the tranny. Vs buying a rebuilt one for $1500 and paying like $500 to have it put in... Need help deciding what to do. Thanks!

Ebay link
 
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I think it comes down to how long you plan on keeping this vehicle?
 
If the vehicle is in good condition then why not put a new transmission in it with better internals. You know what a newer suburban costs right? My brother broke 2 4l60e's in his 97 and even put in a new gm crate long block. He has over 400k (100k new engine). He hauls kids and beats the snot out of it but the cost to replace doesn't make sense.
 
I've heard they are good, strong transmissions.
Is the 2XX,000 miles all yours? Even if so, it's still a well used unit.
$2,000 for a quality rebuild unit seems fair.
We paid $2,000 to an old friend (trannie shop owner) to remove, rebuild and reinstall a FWD transmission 10 or 12 years ago.

As stated above: Continuing ownership? Cost of replacing vehicle? Condition of the car?

You can hear the crowd murmuring "fix it".
 
Wow, that's a long link!

Clinebarger is the trans expert on here esp with a 97 4L60E.

I'd start doing some drain and fills. Four of them spaced out every 500+ miles. With a new trans filter on the last one. I had a hard 1-2 shift on a 99 Accord after the rear main seal was replaced at the dealer. Took it back and they did a drain and fill. Problem solved and never and issue after that.
 
Could you please edit your link to remove all of this part:

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I plan to keep this vehicle for many, many years, in fact, basically forever, unless I get a major wreck with it and it's not fixable.

That said, I do not have any maintenance history as I recently purchased it.

As for changing the tranny fluid, a few weeks back I exchanged three quarts of old stuff with fresh Valvoline Dexron VI using my dipstick tube extractor, and planned to do that several times until it came out clean, but I don't think this actual issue I'm having can be resolved with clean fluid.

As for condition, it's a beat up salvage title truck, so it's cosmetically challenged on the front passenger side corner, but the rest looks alright:

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They can be beefed up, my old C1500 Sub had it done (by the previous owner)-have you had a reputable transmission guy look at it? Your symptoms almost sound like a limp mode?
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
They can be beefed up, my old C1500 Sub had it done (by the previous owner)-have you had a reputable transmission guy look at it? Your symptoms almost sound like a limp mode?


I've never experienced limp mode, but I thought that it would stay in 2nd in limp mode? This quote off some website describing the P1870 code is exactly the issue I'm having:

"If at some point the transmission begins to slip, P1870 sets and line pressure is elevated in an attempt to stop any further slippage and prevent further damage. This would explain why DTC 1870 is often accompanied by a complaint of a hard 1-2 upshift."
 
Originally Posted By: dogememe
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
They can be beefed up, my old C1500 Sub had it done (by the previous owner)-have you had a reputable transmission guy look at it? Your symptoms almost sound like a limp mode?


I've never experienced limp mode, but I thought that it would stay in 2nd in limp mode? This quote off some website describing the P1870 code is exactly the issue I'm having:

"If at some point the transmission begins to slip, P1870 sets and line pressure is elevated in an attempt to stop any further slippage and prevent further damage. This would explain why DTC 1870 is often accompanied by a complaint of a hard 1-2 upshift."
That is what the '93 GMC in my sig did (4L80E)-max pump pressure, fluid was black, all because of a bad TPS. Adjusted the TPS (although it eventually died & was replaced) & multiple fluid changes later, it was fine. 1-2 was so firm it would chirp the tires (a little, it is a 6.2!).
 
Do multiple fluid exchanges with a full synthetic like MaxLife or any Dex 6, and add Lubegard Red at a rate of two ounces per quart to help slip, lubricate seals, clean and keep things from sticking.

edit grammar
 
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It also would have no 4th gear nor TCC-although the standalone controller on my '93 is much simpler than your '97 would have. At 213K, especially in a Sub, I can't believe a 4L60E wouldn't need rebuilt & upgraded, I don't think I've ever had one make it that far in a truck application.
 
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Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
It also would have no 4th gear nor TCC-although the standalone controller on my '93 is much simpler than your '97 would have. At 213K, especially in a Sub, I can't believe a 4L60E wouldn't need rebuilt & upgraded, I don't think I've ever had one make it that far in a truck application.


I am pretty sure I have 4th and TCC lockup - on the highway it was at about 2k rpm at a little over 70mph. Isn't that normal? The transmission felt completely fine except for the hard 1-2 shift.
 
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Action Taken When the DTC P1870 Sets.....
*The VCM inhibits TCC engagement.
*The VCM commands maximum line pressure.
*The VCM inhibits 4th gear if the transmission is in hot mode.
*The VCM freezes shift adapts from being updated.
*The VCM illuminates the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL).

If the trans is not overheating....You will have 4th.
The cause of the harsh 1-2 shift is the commanded max line pressure.

P1870 basically means the TCC is not applying or not holding.....
The most common cause is the TCC Regulator Valve bore is worn & bypassing TCC regulator oil to exhaust.
Trans Go SK-4L60E shift kit has a replacement TCC Regulator Valve that will fix even badly worn Valve Bodies. It eliminates the "Regulated Apply Pressure" & sends line pressure directly to the TCC Apply Valve.

There are other possible causes.....
*Leaking/Broken TCC Enable Solenoid Snout. (Not Common, Unless someone broke it!)
*TCC Enable Solenoid mechanically stuck off. (Not Common)
*TCC PWM Solenoid mechanically stuck off. (Not Common)
*TCC Clutch burnt-up. (You can usually see the "bluing" on the converter cover from extreme heat if the clutch is burnt)

The kit is cheap.... Trans Go SK-4L60E You DO NOT have to use the whole kit!

Instruction page for the TCC Regulator Valve.
PvRF0FW.jpg
 
Thank you for the information - yes the parts are the cheap part, but since I am not doing it myself it's the labor that's the problem. If it was just the cost of a $30 part and some fluid and a filter it would be a no-brainer to try, but it's a difficult choice because I suspect the difference in labor cost between opening it up and doing that repair or replacing the whole tranny is small.
 
Originally Posted By: dogememe
Thank you for the information - yes the parts are the cheap part, but since I am not doing it myself it's the labor that's the problem. If it was just the cost of a $30 part and some fluid and a filter it would be a no-brainer to try, but it's a difficult choice because I suspect the difference in labor cost between opening it up and doing that repair or replacing the whole tranny is small.


Book time to remove & replace the Valve Body is 1.4 hrs, It takes at most 10 minutes to install the Trans Go TCC Regulator Valve.

The Separator Plate gasket may rip when taking the Valve Body down....The shift kit comes with gaskets! Add another 10 minutes to swap the gaskets.

The 2nd Clutch checkball seat could be heavily damaged or the checkball could be stuck in the plate, Fitzall makes repair kits (Set of 5 repair kits is $10) 5 minutes to install & let's say a shop will charge $5 for the part (which would be ridiculous mark-up)

Let's call it 2 hrs.
Shift Kit...Buy it yourself for $40
Plate repair kit $5
Gallon of Dexron VI...Buy it yourself for $30
Filter Kit with Pan Gasket...Buy it yourself for $35
Let's say the shop charges $120 an hour, Your looking at about $350 worst case for this repair......You will spend more just to remove & reinstall the transmission on a K1500 Suburban.

I'm not trying to talk you out of having the unit rebuilt, Without knowing the history of the truck....It's a tough call either way.
 
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: dogememe
Thank you for the information - yes the parts are the cheap part, but since I am not doing it myself it's the labor that's the problem. If it was just the cost of a $30 part and some fluid and a filter it would be a no-brainer to try, but it's a difficult choice because I suspect the difference in labor cost between opening it up and doing that repair or replacing the whole tranny is small.


Book time to remove & replace the Valve Body is 1.4 hrs, It takes at most 10 minutes to install the Trans Go TCC Regulator Valve.

The Separator Plate gasket may rip when taking the Valve Body down....The shift kit comes with gaskets! Add another 10 minutes to swap the gaskets.

The 2nd Clutch checkball seat could be heavily damaged or the checkball could be stuck in the plate, Fitzall makes repair kits (Set of 5 repair kits is $10) 5 minutes to install & let's say a shop will charge $5 for the part (which would be ridiculous mark-up)

Let's call it 2 hrs.
Shift Kit...Buy it yourself for $40
Plate repair kit $5
Gallon of Dexron VI...Buy it yourself for $30
Filter Kit with Pan Gasket...Buy it yourself for $35
Let's say the shop charges $120 an hour, Your looking at about $350 worst case for this repair......You will spend more just to remove & reinstall the transmission on a K1500 Suburban.

I'm not trying to talk you out of having the unit rebuilt, Without knowing the history of the truck....It's a tough call either way.





You're right, so it would be about $400 total. I got quoted $600 just for the labor to change the entire transmission, and that doesn't include the $1200+tax for the new transmission. Hmm
smirk.gif
 
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