Tractor Universal fluids - How good ?

[Shannow]

One of my favourite fluids in the past has been Mobil Agri 424, made my Japanese gearboxes very happy.

Have observed in passing that there are quite a few Universal fluids out there that do the lot.

Engine, Trans, wet brakes, hydraulics.

e.g. Castrol Agri MP.

Question is basically, being an all rounder, just how good (or bad) are they in each of the respective applications.

Are the compromises that are made to gain ALL of the certifications seriously detrimental to long life, or are they minor ?

 

[skyactiv]

I don't know about down under, but there are some junk hydraulic fluids that are banned in a few states here in the USA.

 

[MolaKule]

The UTF's or UTHF's are actually pretty good these days.

If used for their intended purpose and within the manf. stated applications coverage, I know of no compromises.

 

[Langanobob]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
One of my favourite fluids in the past has been Mobil Agri 424, made my Japanese gearboxes very happy.

Have observed in passing that there are quite a few Universal fluids out there that do the lot.

Engine, Trans, wet brakes, hydraulics.

e.g. Castrol Agri MP.

Question is basically, being an all rounder, just how good (or bad) are they in each of the respective applications.

Are the compromises that are made to gain ALL of the certifications seriously detrimental to long life, or are they minor ?


Interesting. I don't have any answers in response to your questions, in fact this is the first time I've heard of a completely universal fluid that's intended for everything from engines through transmissions and hydraulics. Maybe we don't have these products here in the US, or maybe I'm just not up to speed. What we call a universal tractor fluid is a fluid that is used for hydrostatic drives and also tractor hydraulics and mower gearboxes. But not for engines, far as I know.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: Langanobob

Interesting. I don't have any answers in response to your questions, in fact this is the first time I've heard of a completely universal fluid that's intended for everything from engines through transmissions and hydraulics. Maybe we don't have these products here in the US, or maybe I'm just not up to speed. What we call a universal tractor fluid is a fluid that is used for hydrostatic drives and also tractor hydraulics and mower gearboxes. But not for engines, far as I know.


The GOOD tractor fluid that is for wet clutch packs in powershift, wet brakes, and has very HIGH anti-wear & EXTREME pressure additives does indeed act as the SOLE fluid for the entire hydraulic, brakes, & transmission system.

But, no - - - not for use in engines.

.

Many years ago when drag racing 700HP cars with auto trans,

...we always used International Harvester Hy-Tran fluid.

Regular ATF in those days wouldn't stand up to the abuse.

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
The UTF's or UTHF's are actually pretty good these days.


Is that the same as STOU & UTTO?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
But, no - - - not for use in engines.


Was talking about these
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/FD34B7AFEBE3346480257DF9003D05FA/$File/BPXE-9UDPPK.pdf
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/6C866CF548A6DABD80257D41001E061A/$File/BPXE-9NW55Q.pdf

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: SHANNOW
Was talking about these
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/FD34B7AFEBE3346480257DF9003D05FA/$File/BPXE-9UDPPK.pdf
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/6C866CF548A6DABD80257D41001E061A/$File/BPXE-9NW55Q.pdf


These are STOU's.

A STOU (Super Tractor Oil Universal) is defined as a multipurpose tractor oil suitable for naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines fitted in tractors and contractors plant, transmissions including those incorporating "wet" brakes, hydraulic and hydrostatic systems and allows most tractors and contractors plant to operate on a single grade of oil for the engine, transmission and hydraulics, thus permitting grade rationalization and preventing the misuse of separate grades.

The key difference between Super Tractor Oil Universal (STOU) and Universal Tractor Transmission Oil (UTTO) is that STOU can be used as a tractor engine oil (up to API CF) as well as a transmission, final drive, wet brake and hydraulic fluid. Other than that, the two fluids are used in the same types of vehicles and equipment.

 

[Shannow]

Apologies for the terminology...

Are they still OK ?...price is good, and obviously not for either of the common rail diesels in the fleet. But I wouldn't mind having some in the shed if it wasn't a sulfurous (want of a better word) gear lube, for the Japanese style gearboxes.

Would there be a difference between these styles, and this
http://www.anglomoil.com/wp-content/uploads/Cat-TO-4.pdf

Where they have CF CF-2 ?

It's stated on the PDS as "misappication protection", however they also state that the SAE30 can be used as engine oil.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Apologies for the terminology...

Are they still OK ?...price is good, and obviously not for either of the common rail diesels in the fleet. But I wouldn't mind having some in the shed if it wasn't a sulfurous (want of a better word) gear lube, for the Japanese style gearboxes.

Would there be a difference between these styles, and this
http://www.anglomoil.com/wp-content/uploads/Cat-TO-4.pdf

Where they have CF CF-2 ?

It's stated on the PDS as "misappication protection", however they also state that the SAE30 can be used as engine oil.


They are still fine for their intended purpose.

Because they serve so many functions, including the engine, you may find that you will have to use shorter OCI's.

Many establish an OCI but change filters mid-OCI and topoff.

 

[Lane]

Interesting. I just bought an old Massey Ferguson 204, with "reverse-o-matic" torque converter, and I'm beginning the process of learning the correct fluids. I believe the manual said hydraulics used 80-90 gear oil (don't have manual with me). Think I saw a scribbled note about 20W engine oil (40 hp Continental gas engine). I came here and stumbled across this discussion thread. If I had a fluid that would work in everything, that would simplify life. I'm not worried about engine oil, probably just go with a good modern 15-40 for that. But I'm interested in a multi-purpose fluid that will not damage anything in this old tractor.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
The key difference between Super Tractor Oil Universal (STOU) and Universal Tractor Transmission Oil (UTTO) is that STOU can be used as a tractor engine oil (up to API CF) as well as a transmission, final drive, wet brake and hydraulic fluid. Other than that, the two fluids are used in the same types of vehicles and equipment.

Very dated example, but the last piece of farm equipment we had with a shared system was a Case 1270, and its engine oil spec predated even CF.

I posted a manual page once here somewhere.

 

[MolaKule]

STOU's are used in many European countries such as Norway, Germany, Brussels, Denmark, and France.

 

[MolaKule]

Forgot Sweden, lots of STOU use there.

 

[Kamele0N]

What will happen if you put that STOU oil in a diesel engine? Ok lets say that its not a latest DPF equiped one...

Is that oil on the same level as other API CF diesel engine oils or...?

Since STOU oils often have GL4 spec...does that mean that they carry an extra amount of ZDDP?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Lane
Interesting. I just bought an old Massey Ferguson 204, with "reverse-o-matic" torque converter, and I'm beginning the process of learning the correct fluids. I believe the manual said hydraulics used 80-90 gear oil (don't have manual with me). Think I saw a scribbled note about 20W engine oil (40 hp Continental gas engine). I came here and stumbled across this discussion thread. If I had a fluid that would work in everything, that would simplify life. I'm not worried about engine oil, probably just go with a good modern 15-40 for that. But I'm interested in a multi-purpose fluid that will not damage anything in this old tractor.


Something like this

http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/202-315-td.pdf

should work.


PM Schaeffer's Rep 'salesrep' here at BITOG for more info.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
What will happen if you put that STOU oil in a diesel engine? Ok lets say that its not a latest DPF equiped one...

Is that oil on the same level as other API CF diesel engine oils or...?

Since STOU oils often have GL4 spec...does that mean that they carry an extra amount of ZDDP?


The commercial additive for those that I have dealt with cover Turbocharged diesel engines as well.

 

[Kamele0N]

heh ok...I can see that myself also...I know what API CF stands for...

I will try with different approach

How does diesel STOU oil compare with normal "Allfleet" or generic diesel oils...

Or in the case of UTTO oils...how they compare with other sae80...or sae90 gear oils?

I hope that I was clear enough this time?

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
in the case of UTTO oils...how [do] they compare with other sae80...or sae90 gear oils?


In terms of Anti-Wear and viscosity just fine as they contain a healthy dose of AW chemistry.

SAE gear oils however should never be used in those systems that require STOU's because of their EP additives.

Quote:
How does diesel STOU oil compare with normal "Allfleet" or generic diesel oils...


STOU oils come in similar viscosities as do the oils you mentioned and contain a healthy dose of AW chemistry.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
in the case of UTTO oils...how [do] they compare with other sae80...or sae90 gear oils?


In terms of Anti-Wear and viscosity just fine as they contain a healthy dose of AW chemistry.

SAE gear oils however should never be used in those systems that require STOU's because of their EP additives.

Quote:
How does diesel STOU oil compare with normal "Allfleet" or generic diesel oils...


STOU oils come in similar viscosities as do the oils you mentioned and contain a healthy dose of AW chemistry.