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What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? #4702275
03/21/18 05:48 PM
03/21/18 05:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,394
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,394
Michigan
I know you should run JASO spec oil because of not wanting friction modifiers that can mess with the clutches. However looking at UOA's confuse me because these cycle oils almost all have things like moly and boron in them. Of course they also have the normal zddp. So what additives are supposed to be a problem?


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram TG
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702282
03/21/18 05:58 PM
03/21/18 05:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,301
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,301
The Midwest
I'll let others discuss moly, but I'm guessing Tungsten wouldn't be advisable, however it is used only in one oil that I know of: Liqui Moly Molygen


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual

Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702283
03/21/18 05:58 PM
03/21/18 05:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,025
PENNSYLVANIA
JeepWJ19 Offline
JeepWJ19  Offline

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,025
PENNSYLVANIA
I think it's high amount of molybdenum that is the problem. Having some moly is ok, but globs I'd be hesitant about using.

But Im sure someone way more knowledgeable than I will give better detail or correct me :]


2002 Jeep WJ 4.0 | Mobil 1 HM 5w30 |
TG8A | 2.5" lift | 148k miles

Software Engineer :]
Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702289
03/21/18 06:00 PM
03/21/18 06:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 729
Arizona
Kawiguy454 Offline
Kawiguy454  Offline

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 729
Arizona
From everything I have read just never use any oil that has the "Energy Conserving" on label. I have used Rotella and mobil1 car oils in bikes, Quads and dirtbikes's for years without a single wet clutch issue. Current sportbike makes 200+ HP ...and no clutch issues.

Last edited by Kawiguy454; 03/21/18 06:01 PM.
Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702330
03/21/18 06:33 PM
03/21/18 06:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,394
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,394
Michigan


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram TG
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702335
03/21/18 06:40 PM
03/21/18 06:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,252
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,252
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Years ago Liqui Moly had small 75ml cans for small engines and motorcycles. This is what they say about it.

Quote:
For motorcycles with wet clutches, add maximum 2% of the oil filling volume.


In 4qts oil 75ml (2.5oz) is the max. With wet clutches you are better off with no additional moly IMO.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702365
03/21/18 07:09 PM
03/21/18 07:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,017
Waco, TX
Linctex Online content
Linctex  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,017
Waco, TX
Moly is definitely the big no-no with wet clutches.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702383
03/21/18 07:26 PM
03/21/18 07:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,419
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Online content
Chris142  Online Content

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,419
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
I have been riding since 1977. I have never had moly cause a clutch problem. Oil samples show many motorcycle oils contain moly.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702396
03/21/18 07:40 PM
03/21/18 07:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
MotoTribologist Offline
MotoTribologist  Offline

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
Anti-wear and extreme pressure additives are typically ok; friction modifiers are not. MoDTC at too high a concentration will cause slippage, but small amounts might be ok (depends on the rest of the formulation). Other types aren't going to show up on an oil analysis such as organic friction modifiers, or might be hard to pick out of an elemental analysis such as phosphorus and sulfur based additives.

Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702620
03/21/18 11:16 PM
03/21/18 11:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,330
Europe
SonofJoe Offline
SonofJoe  Offline

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,330
Europe
I've passed many a JASO friction tests on oils containing Moly.

Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702649
03/22/18 12:29 AM
03/22/18 12:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,206
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,206
US-WA
Somebody forgot to tell Redline oil users they are having issues with the wet clutch. Me too, the Delo is just making it slip left and right. Not.

I'm sure there is truth to that, but at 400+ ppm moly isn't enough. I always thought it was FMs that did not show up in the UOA, something non metallic.


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 106K STP syn HM 10w30, FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40, XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 21K VR1 20w50, NG1515
14 RX450h 40k Idemitsu 0w20, 57047
Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702655
03/22/18 01:22 AM
03/22/18 01:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,078
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,078
New Zealand
The only problem I've had with moly was back in the '70's when I built a Triumph using moly assembly paste. Triumph's don't have a wet clutch, it's just a bit damp. In later models the left side oil seal was removed and they used the chaincase as a breather chamber...so some of my engine oil got in the chaincase. The clutch would slip for 5 miles until it gone hot, then never gave any problems.


1987 BMW R65 - Aegis SAE30
2005 Nissan Expert - 5W-40 Castrol Magnatec diesel.
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4702780
03/22/18 07:57 AM
03/22/18 07:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,959
Cedar Park, TX
sunruh Offline
sunruh  Offline

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,959
Cedar Park, TX
here we go yet again on all of the total mis-information about moly

i have tested dozens upon dozens of oils (its over 80 now) and the highest MOLYBDENUM was 135
with 20 samples being over 50 with ZERO (that is NO) issues with the clutch.

if you have clutch problems its the clutch, not the oil


motorcycle oil myth buster
Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: sunruh] #4702981
03/22/18 10:24 AM
03/22/18 10:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
MotoTribologist Offline
MotoTribologist  Offline

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: sunruh
here we go yet again on all of the total mis-information about moly

i have tested dozens upon dozens of oils (its over 80 now) and the highest MOLYBDENUM was 135
with 20 samples being over 50 with ZERO (that is NO) issues with the clutch.

if you have clutch problems its the clutch, not the oil

That's pretty much the gist of what everyone else has responded with. There hasn't been much of any "misinformation" shared here.

Re: What additives in oil are bad for wet clutches? [Re: ZZman] #4704552
03/23/18 07:06 PM
03/23/18 07:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 989
SACRAMENTO, CA
rrounds Online content
rrounds  Online Content

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 989
SACRAMENTO, CA
Or you have weak clutch springs like my C90 Suzuki and my 1100 Honda. Replaced the clutch springs and no more slipping. Wish I could find the pic's I had of the difference between the stock and after market springs.

ROD


'06 S2000
'00 SSEi sold at 252k miles
'08 Ford F53 V10
'13 Jeep Sahara 2 door
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