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CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA #4701006
03/20/18 05:03 PM
03/20/18 05:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
Elemental (in ppm) and Viscosity Characteristics:

Iron - 1
Boron - 350
Silicon - 6
Sodium - 4
Calcium - 570
Magnesium - 7
Phos - 758
Zinc - 5
Sulfur - 1120

Kinematic viscosity - 7.3 [email protected]

Brookfield Visc (ASTM D2983) - 8654

PP -55F

VI - 188

FP - 410F

TAN - 2.55

Not shown of course are other oxidation inhibitors, base fluid types, Traction Coefficient modifiers, surfactants, ashless dispersants, etc.


Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4701040
03/20/18 05:48 PM
03/20/18 05:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,940
northern Alabama
benjamming Offline
benjamming  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,940
northern Alabama
Which product is this? What type of CVT?
In your expert opinion, do the multi-vehicle formulations work well for CVT?

Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: benjamming] #4701067
03/20/18 06:13 PM
03/20/18 06:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Which product is this? What type of CVT?
In your expert opinion, do the multi-vehicle formulations work well for CVT?


This is my formulation for a customer and is comparable to most Multi-Vehicle CVT formulae. Will cover Nissan NS-1 through NS-3 specificationa and others.

One has to check the PDS and labels to determine what vehicle fluids are covered.

So far, yes, this additive and base oil combination works well.

Last edited by MolaKule; 03/20/18 06:16 PM.

Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4701090
03/20/18 06:30 PM
03/20/18 06:30 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,478
out there
spasm3 Online content
spasm3  Online Content
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,478
out there
Lots of boron!! Is that for low temp anti-wear?

Last edited by spasm3; 03/20/18 06:30 PM.

13 elantra 72k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche 80k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 7300 miles m1 0w30
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4701102
03/20/18 06:41 PM
03/20/18 06:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,114
Prospect, KY
spk2000 Offline
spk2000  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,114
Prospect, KY
Not a CVT expert here have only driven one as a rental Nissan Sentra. I was under the impression that a CVT was like snowmobile belt drive and assumed it did not need fluid. It certainly does not have the friction plates in a standard or normal automatic transmission. What is the fluid needed for?


96 Grand Marquis
01 Sable LS
02 Montero
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4701110
03/20/18 06:51 PM
03/20/18 06:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,786
Arizona
bulwnkl Offline
bulwnkl  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,786
Arizona
CVTs in cars use chains, not belts.

Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: spk2000] #4701160
03/20/18 07:24 PM
03/20/18 07:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: spk2000
Not a CVT expert here have only driven one as a rental Nissan Sentra. I was under the impression that a CVT was like snowmobile belt drive and assumed it did not need fluid. It certainly does not have the friction plates in a standard or normal automatic transmission. What is the fluid needed for?


Here is a very good paper explaining the the types of CVTs:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094114X08001432

Last edited by MolaKule; 03/20/18 07:29 PM.

Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: bulwnkl] #4701175
03/20/18 07:35 PM
03/20/18 07:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,525
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,525
...
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
CVTs in cars use chains, not belts.


They do come with belts. Jatco uses a specially designed metal belt. Subaru and some others use a chain.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4701218
03/20/18 08:10 PM
03/20/18 08:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: SPK2000
I was under the impression that a CVT was like snowmobile belt drive and assumed it did not need fluid. It certainly does not have the friction plates in a standard or normal automatic transmission. What is the fluid needed for?


Some CVT's are coupled to a Torque Converter (TC) and even Lock-Up TC's. So then a fluid is needed for it and to provide cooling, proper traction coefficients, and to prevent wear between the linking mechanism and the Variators.

Here is a post that may help that I made in the ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S forum:

Quote:
...
Step-Shift ATF's and Friction Modification


The question of coverage has also been raised with the Dexron/Merc (Step-Shift) type fluids. If the Dex/Merc "Multi-Vehicle" ATF fluid has the proper friction modifier chemistries to support support a range of dynamic friction coefficients Mu(v), then they can provide a range of coverage and specifications.

Belt/Chain CVT's rely on another type of friction or coefficient of friction and that is called the, "Traction Coefficient."

This "Traction Coefficient" has to be within a certain range of values in order to properly transmit power and not let "slippage" occur, so special friction modifiers are part of the chemistry. The rest of the fluid contains base oils, Anti-Wear additives, and other components.

Now if the CVT fluid has the proper friction modifier chemistries to support support this range of "Traction Coefficients" then one fluid can cover Nissan NS-1 through NS-3 and other specifications.

As mentioned in other threads on ATF, whether it be for Step-Shift's or CVT's, ATF's are the most additized fluid in the automotive drivetrain because of these specialized friction modifiers.



Last edited by MolaKule; 03/20/18 08:17 PM.

Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: spasm3] #4701353
03/20/18 11:19 PM
03/20/18 11:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Lots of boron!! Is that for low temp anti-wear?


This Boron component is a Mutli-Functional Boron Epoxide.


Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: PimTac] #4702462
03/21/18 07:32 PM
03/21/18 07:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,786
Arizona
bulwnkl Offline
bulwnkl  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,786
Arizona
Originally Posted By: PimTac
They do come with belts. Jatco uses a specially designed metal belt. Subaru and some others use a chain.


Chain is another term for "metal belt."
;-)

Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4702632
03/21/18 10:42 PM
03/21/18 10:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
smile

Look at this again, Figures 1 and 2, there is a difference in construction and nomenclature:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094114X08001432


Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4703719
03/22/18 08:44 PM
03/22/18 08:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,786
Arizona
bulwnkl Offline
bulwnkl  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,786
Arizona
So, then, we all agree that automotive CVTs use metal-on-metal parts, and that's why they use oils? I call them all chains. I'm not terribly precise in my terminology in this realm, I find.

Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4704220
03/23/18 11:56 AM
03/23/18 11:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
No Problem bw. cool

The belt type contains those metal elements embedded within the belt, and full metal elements for the chain type.

Whether Belt or Chain type, you have two competing requirements going on inside a CVT.

You have metal-on-metal contact and the associated wear with both, but you also have the need to prevent slippage so you don't have any torque loss due to slipping.

Those competing requirements require a careful balance of various chemistries in order to accommodate these competing requirements.


Last edited by MolaKule; 03/23/18 11:58 AM.

Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4751599
05/08/18 08:16 PM
05/08/18 08:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 721
Los Gatos, CA
JeffKeryk Offline
JeffKeryk  Offline
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 721
Los Gatos, CA
OK. I service 2 Nissans. A 2016 Altima with 80K and a 2017 Sentra with 35K.
Both are Hertz vehicles.
Which fluid do you recommend?

I did 2 spill and fills on the Altima; factory fill was filthy (70K) now looks good.
Valvoline Synthetic CVT fluid.
Planning on servicing the Sentra soon.

T.I.A.

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