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CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA #4701006
03/20/18 06:03 PM
03/20/18 06:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,776
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
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Elemental (in ppm) and Viscosity Characteristics:

Iron - 1
Boron - 350
Silicon - 6
Sodium - 4
Calcium - 570
Magnesium - 7
Phos - 758
Zinc - 5
Sulfur - 1120

Kinematic viscosity - 7.3 [email protected]

Brookfield Visc (ASTM D2983) - 8654

PP -55F

VI - 188

FP - 410F

TAN - 2.55

Not shown of course are other oxidation inhibitors, base fluid types, Traction Coefficient modifiers, surfactants, ashless dispersants, etc.


"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4701040
03/20/18 06:48 PM
03/20/18 06:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,970
northern Alabama
benjamming Offline
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Which product is this? What type of CVT?
In your expert opinion, do the multi-vehicle formulations work well for CVT?

Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: benjamming] #4701067
03/20/18 07:13 PM
03/20/18 07:13 PM
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MolaKule Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: benjamming
Which product is this? What type of CVT?
In your expert opinion, do the multi-vehicle formulations work well for CVT?


This is my formulation for a customer and is comparable to most Multi-Vehicle CVT formulae. Will cover Nissan NS-1 through NS-3 specificationa and others.

One has to check the PDS and labels to determine what vehicle fluids are covered.

So far, yes, this additive and base oil combination works well.

Last edited by MolaKule; 03/20/18 07:16 PM.

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4701090
03/20/18 07:30 PM
03/20/18 07:30 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,870
out there
spasm3 Offline
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Lots of boron!! Is that for low temp anti-wear?

Last edited by spasm3; 03/20/18 07:30 PM.

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Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4701102
03/20/18 07:41 PM
03/20/18 07:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
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Prospect, KY
spk2000 Offline
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Not a CVT expert here have only driven one as a rental Nissan Sentra. I was under the impression that a CVT was like snowmobile belt drive and assumed it did not need fluid. It certainly does not have the friction plates in a standard or normal automatic transmission. What is the fluid needed for?


96 Grand Marquis
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Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4701110
03/20/18 07:51 PM
03/20/18 07:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,802
Arizona
bulwnkl Offline
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Arizona
CVTs in cars use chains, not belts.

Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: spk2000] #4701160
03/20/18 08:24 PM
03/20/18 08:24 PM
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Posts: 19,776
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: spk2000
Not a CVT expert here have only driven one as a rental Nissan Sentra. I was under the impression that a CVT was like snowmobile belt drive and assumed it did not need fluid. It certainly does not have the friction plates in a standard or normal automatic transmission. What is the fluid needed for?


Here is a very good paper explaining the the types of CVTs:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094114X08001432

Last edited by MolaKule; 03/20/18 08:29 PM.

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: bulwnkl] #4701175
03/20/18 08:35 PM
03/20/18 08:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,325
...
PimTac Offline
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...
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
CVTs in cars use chains, not belts.


They do come with belts. Jatco uses a specially designed metal belt. Subaru and some others use a chain.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4701218
03/20/18 09:10 PM
03/20/18 09:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,776
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: SPK2000
I was under the impression that a CVT was like snowmobile belt drive and assumed it did not need fluid. It certainly does not have the friction plates in a standard or normal automatic transmission. What is the fluid needed for?


Some CVT's are coupled to a Torque Converter (TC) and even Lock-Up TC's. So then a fluid is needed for it and to provide cooling, proper traction coefficients, and to prevent wear between the linking mechanism and the Variators.

Here is a post that may help that I made in the ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S forum:

Quote:
...
Step-Shift ATF's and Friction Modification


The question of coverage has also been raised with the Dexron/Merc (Step-Shift) type fluids. If the Dex/Merc "Multi-Vehicle" ATF fluid has the proper friction modifier chemistries to support support a range of dynamic friction coefficients Mu(v), then they can provide a range of coverage and specifications.

Belt/Chain CVT's rely on another type of friction or coefficient of friction and that is called the, "Traction Coefficient."

This "Traction Coefficient" has to be within a certain range of values in order to properly transmit power and not let "slippage" occur, so special friction modifiers are part of the chemistry. The rest of the fluid contains base oils, Anti-Wear additives, and other components.

Now if the CVT fluid has the proper friction modifier chemistries to support support this range of "Traction Coefficients" then one fluid can cover Nissan NS-1 through NS-3 and other specifications.

As mentioned in other threads on ATF, whether it be for Step-Shift's or CVT's, ATF's are the most additized fluid in the automotive drivetrain because of these specialized friction modifiers.



Last edited by MolaKule; 03/20/18 09:17 PM.

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: spasm3] #4701353
03/21/18 12:19 AM
03/21/18 12:19 AM
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Posts: 19,776
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Lots of boron!! Is that for low temp anti-wear?


This Boron component is a Mutli-Functional Boron Epoxide.


"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: PimTac] #4702462
03/21/18 08:32 PM
03/21/18 08:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,802
Arizona
bulwnkl Offline
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Originally Posted By: PimTac
They do come with belts. Jatco uses a specially designed metal belt. Subaru and some others use a chain.


Chain is another term for "metal belt."
;-)

Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4702632
03/21/18 11:42 PM
03/21/18 11:42 PM
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Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
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smile

Look at this again, Figures 1 and 2, there is a difference in construction and nomenclature:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094114X08001432


"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4703719
03/22/18 09:44 PM
03/22/18 09:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,802
Arizona
bulwnkl Offline
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So, then, we all agree that automotive CVTs use metal-on-metal parts, and that's why they use oils? I call them all chains. I'm not terribly precise in my terminology in this realm, I find.

Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4704220
03/23/18 12:56 PM
03/23/18 12:56 PM
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Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
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No Problem bw. cool

The belt type contains those metal elements embedded within the belt, and full metal elements for the chain type.

Whether Belt or Chain type, you have two competing requirements going on inside a CVT.

You have metal-on-metal contact and the associated wear with both, but you also have the need to prevent slippage so you don't have any torque loss due to slipping.

Those competing requirements require a careful balance of various chemistries in order to accommodate these competing requirements.


Last edited by MolaKule; 03/23/18 12:58 PM.

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Re: CVT Formulation for Multi-Vehicle CVT VOA [Re: MolaKule] #4751599
05/08/18 09:16 PM
05/08/18 09:16 PM
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Posts: 1,206
Los Gatos, CA
JeffKeryk Online content
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Los Gatos, CA
OK. I service 2 Nissans. A 2016 Altima with 80K and a 2017 Sentra with 35K.
Both are Hertz vehicles.
Which fluid do you recommend?

I did 2 spill and fills on the Altima; factory fill was filthy (70K) now looks good.
Valvoline Synthetic CVT fluid.
Planning on servicing the Sentra soon.

T.I.A.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
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