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This doesn't look good for self driving cars. #4699823
03/19/18 02:04 PM
03/19/18 02:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 706
West Ma.
rollinpete Offline OP
rollinpete  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 706
West Ma.


Pete.

97 Ford Expl.Sport 4.0 ohv 4wd 5spddrive187k miles
03 Saturn Ion 2.2 L4 5spddrive236K miles
PPHM 5w30 x 2 Fram Ultra x 2

Currently under the influence of oil shocked2

Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: rollinpete] #4699829
03/19/18 02:08 PM
03/19/18 02:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,583
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,583
NJ
People get killed everyday by human driven cars. Guess tht's so common that it's not news.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 370,000 miles
2015 Camry 70,000 miles
Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: Leo99] #4699834
03/19/18 02:11 PM
03/19/18 02:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,562
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,562
New England
Originally Posted By: Leo99
People get killed everyday by human driven cars. Guess tht's so common that it's not news.


The big difference here is that Uber gets to be the target of a lawsuit rather than an individual human driver.

Sad news, my condolences to the lady's family and friends.


2014 Forester XT, 95000 miles
Last Change;
M1 0W30 AFE d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: rollinpete] #4699926
03/19/18 03:32 PM
03/19/18 03:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,566
New England
gathermewool Offline
gathermewool  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,566
New England
The human backup did not have time to react, so it must have happened suddenly.

The lady did not cross at a cross-walk. Prossibly some zombie, face-deep in her phone.


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: rollinpete] #4699939
03/19/18 03:49 PM
03/19/18 03:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,445
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,445
US
Just goes to show that programmers canNOT possibly prepare a self driving vehicle for every circumstance...I am against them.


I'm a thickie; assimilate
But 20s have their place

Using AMSOIL

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 138k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 45k, OE 5w30/Wix

Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: gathermewool] #4699960
03/19/18 04:15 PM
03/19/18 04:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,933
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,933
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
The human backup did not have time to react, so it must have happened suddenly.


No, as I keep saying, from working in an automated industry, the further that you remove the operator from the action, by taking direct control away from them, the longer they take to identify an issue is occurring, fully assess the situation, and then take corrective action...and then it's often the wrong action.

This is well known from every automated industry.

But the car people refuse to acknowledge what's been known for a half century, and come out with motherhood statements like "the driver is still the ultimate control".

Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: rollinpete] #4699971
03/19/18 04:24 PM
03/19/18 04:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,730
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,730
Santa Barbara, CA
Never underestimate the ability of the general public to violate the laws of physics on a daily basis.

I get nervous enough being in a vehicle with someone else driving, I couldn't stand being in an automated vehicle.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: rollinpete] #4700064
03/19/18 06:10 PM
03/19/18 06:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,921
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
JimPghPA Offline
JimPghPA  Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,921
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
Do an internet search for "wikipedia yearly vehicle deaths" and "wikipedia yearly vehicle deaths united states"

In 2016 there were 37,461 vehicle-related deaths here in the United States, and every year there are approximately that many.

Someday autonomous vehicles will do away with the tens of thousands of motor vehicle-related deaths here in the US and I say it cant happen too soon.


Last edited by JimPghPA; 03/19/18 06:11 PM.

Boy will I be happy when ALL vehicles on public roads are autonomous.


JimPghPa

Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: rollinpete] #4700071
03/19/18 06:14 PM
03/19/18 06:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,921
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
JimPghPA Offline
JimPghPA  Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,921
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
Would you rather have drunk, or drugged, or distracted drivers driving a human-driven vehicle, or have them riding in an autonomous vehicle?


Boy will I be happy when ALL vehicles on public roads are autonomous.


JimPghPa

Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: rollinpete] #4700075
03/19/18 06:18 PM
03/19/18 06:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 774
Northern Arizona
funflyer Offline
funflyer  Offline
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 774
Northern Arizona
I'm surprised it wasn't going the wrong way on one of our freewaysgrin


2016 Prius 1.8L
2001 Tacoma 2.4L
1966 GTO 6.5L
2015 Cub Cadet
Honda CT70 (X6)
Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: rollinpete] #4700083
03/19/18 06:21 PM
03/19/18 06:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,776
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,776
ME
I'm waiting for a snowstorm where all the automated 18-wheelers call it quits and park like zombies on the shoulders... or in the travel lanes.

Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: Shannow] #4700139
03/19/18 07:03 PM
03/19/18 07:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,566
New England
gathermewool Offline
gathermewool  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,566
New England
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
The human backup did not have time to react, so it must have happened suddenly.


No, as I keep saying, from working in an automated industry, the further that you remove the operator from the action, by taking direct control away from them, the longer they take to identify an issue is occurring, fully assess the situation, and then take corrective action...and then it's often the wrong action.

This is well known from every automated industry.

But the car people refuse to acknowledge what's been known for a half century, and come out with motherhood statements like "the driver is still the ultimate control".


No, I'd say it depends - not 'no' and that's it.

I use Eyesight adaptive cruise control, but always keep my foot near the brake while driving and on the brake when there are other cars nearby. If someone wants to cut me off, my foot hitting the brake is delayed only as quick as my brain-to-leg signal path.

I'm sure there are others who cross their legs or sit Indian-style, or whatever. Was the guy in the automated car placing his attention elsewhere or was the event sudden? Has that been reported yet?


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: rollinpete] #4700154
03/19/18 07:10 PM
03/19/18 07:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,921
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
JimPghPA Offline
JimPghPA  Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,921
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
BTW, if we want to compare statistics of the very small number of self-driving vehicles, to the much larger number of human-driven vehicles, we should look at the totals for the number of days that the self-driving vehicles have been in operation.


Boy will I be happy when ALL vehicles on public roads are autonomous.


JimPghPa

Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: bdcardinal] #4700156
03/19/18 07:13 PM
03/19/18 07:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,900
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline
irv  Offline
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,900
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Never underestimate the ability of the general public to violate the laws of physics on a daily basis.

I get nervous enough being in a vehicle with someone else driving, I couldn't stand being in an automated vehicle.


No kidding! That would make me want to walk!

I'm sure, as this is still very new technology, once bugs are worked out, things will improve greatly, but at the same time, the tech shouldn't be going around killing people before we get there!


2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: This doesn't look good for self driving cars. [Re: rollinpete] #4700220
03/19/18 08:22 PM
03/19/18 08:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,583
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,583
NJ
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Never underestimate the ability of the general public to violate the laws of physics on a daily basis.

I get nervous enough being in a vehicle with someone else driving, I couldn't stand being in an automated vehicle.


No kidding! That would make me want to walk!

I'm sure, as this is still very new technology, once bugs are worked out, things will improve greatly, but at the same time, the tech shouldn't be going around killing people before we get there!


So, being killed by a human driver is an acceptable risk when you hit the road but being killed by an autonomous driver is worse somehow?

If human driven cars kill 100 people, on average, per day. Why is the threshold for autonomous vehicles zero per day? Wouldn't a 50% reduction in deaths if we switched to autonomous vehicles worthwhile? The cause of the crashes is still the same: people doing stupid unexpected things behind the wheel.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 370,000 miles
2015 Camry 70,000 miles
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