Recent Topics
Drive In Movies
by 53' Stude - 09/15/19 08:49 AM
Oil/Gas prices gonna go up?
by Mad_Hatter - 09/15/19 08:10 AM
Ordering parts
by tiger862 - 09/15/19 07:44 AM
Shell conventional @ Menards. $1.99
by Kruse - 09/15/19 07:33 AM
How do I update my profile?
by ernied - 09/15/19 07:07 AM
Most dangerous job ever?
by Mad_Hatter - 09/15/19 07:06 AM
04 Grand Marquis
by mrjlube - 09/15/19 07:01 AM
Engine burning oil
by Espada - 09/15/19 06:49 AM
Walmart near me do not sell havoline oil
by MetalSlug - 09/15/19 04:11 AM
Wanted: Inexpensive car
by FirstNissan - 09/15/19 02:53 AM
Do all replacement LED headlight bulbs suck?
by Nick1994 - 09/15/19 12:56 AM
5 qt Chevron Supreme 5w-30 for $12.42 @ walmart.com
by gallydif - 09/15/19 12:03 AM
how effective is spray scotchgard?
by WhyMe - 09/14/19 11:39 PM
Want opinion of disc brake pad wear
by boulderdentist - 09/14/19 11:08 PM
Mercedes’ dealer oil filter panel/board
by SlavaB - 09/14/19 11:08 PM
Mercedes damage code
by SlavaB - 09/14/19 11:00 PM
Restoring the paint on the Crown Vic
by Colt45ws - 09/14/19 10:39 PM
Hyundai Ioniq
by WhyMe - 09/14/19 10:08 PM
Grooves in windshield due to wiper blades
by dx92beater - 09/14/19 09:43 PM
Newest Members
KevATL, DragSGT, Gbenitez, DoctorPc, FarmerDan
69277 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
94 registered members (53' Stude, atikovi, Amenhotep, 08z06, ARCOgraphite, aleneros, 8 invisible), 1,639 guests, and 22 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics294,563
Posts5,062,455
Members69,277
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 5 1 2 5
VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils #4699714 03/19/18 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 209
C
CARJ Offline OP
OP Offline
C
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 209
Before getting married and buying my first German car, I had never heard of buying specific oil (other than weight) for a car. Can you all explain to me why a certain 5w-30 is approved and some aren't? This is a non turbo, inline 5 car, out of warranty. What is different about the oil? What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?


2004 Toyota 4Runner | 192k | M1 0w-30, YZZD3
2012 VW Passat | 94k | Liqui-Moly 5w-40, Hengst
1997 Honda Civic HX | 221k | M1 0w-30, PH3593a
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699723 03/19/18 01:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 541
D
drtyler Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 541
Originally Posted By: CARJ
What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?


Increased wear and deposits.

VW 502 oils are readily available - Mobil 1 0W40 and Castrol Edge 0W40 or 5W40 are at Wal-Mart for good prices.

Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699724 03/19/18 01:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,833
E
edyvw Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,833
Originally Posted By: CARJ
Before getting married and buying my first German car, I had never heard of buying specific oil (other than weight) for a car. Can you all explain to me why a certain 5w-30 is approved and some aren't? This is a non turbo, inline 5 car, out of warranty. What is different about the oil? What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?

If you search on Google that you will get thousands of results.
In short: Euro specific oils have higher HTHS, stay in grade requirements, lower oxidation and NOACK. Generally they are more stringent and usually developed from better base oils.
IMO best Euro specific oil for Euro gassers that is readily available? Castrol 0W40 available in Wal mart.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699727 03/19/18 01:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 209
C
CARJ Offline OP
OP Offline
C
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 209
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?


2004 Toyota 4Runner | 192k | M1 0w-30, YZZD3
2012 VW Passat | 94k | Liqui-Moly 5w-40, Hengst
1997 Honda Civic HX | 221k | M1 0w-30, PH3593a
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699737 03/19/18 01:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,833
E
edyvw Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,833
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?

But research! Numerous topics on this. Literally thousands!
It is manufacturer requirement. EP is simply not stringent as let's say Mobil1 0W40. Manufacturer sets requirements based on their demands (which on Euro cars usually is connected to high strains and speeds). When VW develops engines it does not develop with Kansas in mind but with Auto Bahn in mind, and those are different requirements.
By the way, Toyota also recommends heavier oils for Europe, mostly ACEA A3/B3 B4 for gassers and ACEA C3 for diesels.

Last edited by edyvw; 03/19/18 01:30 PM.

15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699743 03/19/18 01:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 541
D
drtyler Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 541
The 502 spec is built around ACEA A3 specs plus VW's own specs and wear tests, and requires the traits mentioned by edyvw above.

The M1 EP 5W30 doesn't meet all of those standards. It was not tested or approved by VW. If you want to run it in your car and tell us the results, go for it.

Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699747 03/19/18 01:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 176
S
Saul Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 176
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?


It seems like you want someone tell you using a non 502 oil is all fine and dandy. Why is this so important? It has already been said you can find the 502 stuff at walmart right next to the other stuff....

Also, Pennzoil 0w-40 euro is on clearance at walmart for $10 and is 502 approved...

Last edited by Saul; 03/19/18 01:39 PM.
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699748 03/19/18 01:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 712
K
knerml Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 712
I believe that VAG was experiencing engine sludge problems when they extended oil change intervals. Their response was:
1. VW 502 spec
2. Increased capacity oil filters, which also increase engine oil capacity


2015 Hyundai Elantra Sport 2.0 GDI Mobil 1 5W30 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport AWD 2.0T Castrol Edge 5W40 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699751 03/19/18 01:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 209
C
CARJ Offline OP
OP Offline
C
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 209
I'm just curious as to why some oils are okay and some aren't even if they are the same weight.


2004 Toyota 4Runner | 192k | M1 0w-30, YZZD3
2012 VW Passat | 94k | Liqui-Moly 5w-40, Hengst
1997 Honda Civic HX | 221k | M1 0w-30, PH3593a
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699771 03/19/18 02:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 316
B
Bullwinkle007 Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 316
The us uses thin and light oils, Europe likes heavier weight oil, light weight oil is for fuel economy, ACEA spec is way better than API, read into it, way more demanding, also in Europe, to call an oil synthetic, it must be made with a PAO group IV, not group III, so to get euro spec synthetic, it must meet those mfg specs. Even Honda in Europe calls for acea a3/b4. Only use 0/20 for fuel economy or use 0/30, 5/40 or a 0/40

Last edited by Bullwinkle007; 03/19/18 02:11 PM.
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699825 03/19/18 03:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,875
S
skyactiv Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,875
CAFE credits.

The automakers can sell CAFE credits and profit by them. Every 1/10 of 1 MPG counts. The profits are real.
The automakers must be careful by specifying and recommending the same oil viscosity used in testing.
They cant use a 0W20 during the test procedure and print in the owners manual this car requires 5W30.
VW historically didn't play the CAFE credit game in the USA like the others did.

BTW CARJ, I was a technician at a Honda dealer when your Civic HX came out. You have a rare keeper. They got great gas mileage with the 5 speed and
felt faster than the EX model despite having less HP. The rare CVT HX had a short transmission lifespan and most have long been in the junkyard.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
2018 Elantra Sport 6 speed manual


Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: Bullwinkle007] #4699868 03/19/18 03:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,308
T
tig1 Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,308
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
The us uses thin and light oils, Europe likes heavier weight oil, light weight oil is for fuel economy, ACEA spec is way better than API, read into it, way more demanding, also in Europe, to call an oil synthetic, it must be made with a PAO group IV, not group III, so to get euro spec synthetic, it must meet those mfg specs. Even Honda in Europe calls for acea a3/b4. Only use 0/20 for fuel economy or use 0/30, 5/40 or a 0/40


Please tell us what brand of oil is PAO? We will be waiting.


2007 Ford Fusion 247,000 miles
M1 5-20HM
2017 Ford Fusion 75K
M1 0-20EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699880 03/19/18 03:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,776
A
Audios Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,776
I always assumed that it was for drain interval, and so specified a quality oil. Audi pretty much said "If you run an oil that is good enough to meet this spec, and you are on time with your intervals, you wont have issues for the lifetime of the car" So if youre running shorter intervals, or have some way of measuring how well the oil is holding up, then I wouldnt worry so much. One of my employees runs our cheaper Cam2 5/30 Semi syn in his 03 1.8t A4, and saw no issues with 5k intervals. I ran it in a friends 2006 BMW 325i and they recommended a 7500 interval with a recheck. He only went 6 or so, no issues what so ever. I have also seen Audis that push the interval with 502 oil and have had no serious issues. A customer of ours HAD an 07 A4 2.0t from new that saw about 45k a year. Everytime he came in hed be 1500-3k over the 10k interval, rarely adding oil. He made it to 290k before it overheated on his commute one day. So their spec isnt so bad for absolute bare minimum needed.


2002 VW Golf TDI-T5 10/30
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI- M1 0/30 ESP
2005 BMW M3 BMW Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-Fuchs 5/40
1998 BMW M3/4/5 Fuchs 5/40
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699897 03/19/18 03:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 368
B
Bailes1992 Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 368
VW 502/505 is a specifcation that builds on ACEA A3/B4.

Most oils that meet ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 meet VW 502/505. They're very easy oils to find.

As long as the engine oil you pick is of a similar viscosity and has a HTHS of 3.5 or more I doubt you would see any immediate issues, if any long term providing the OCI is reigned in a bit.

However, as I said above VW 502/505 oils are cheap and easy to find. So why bother with anything else?


17 Volvo V40 D3 Geartronic - Castrol Edge 5w30 LL & Comma MVATF Plus
96 Defender 300TDi - Castrol Vecton 10w40 & 75w90 Universal
03 Ford Mondeo ST 3.0 V6 - Castrol Magnatec 10w40 & 75w90 Universal
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699918 03/19/18 04:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
1
1JZ_E46 Offline
Offline
1
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?


M1 ESP has lower TBN (and lower additive levels) not suitable for U.S. gasoline engines.


2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
2016 Countryman S: Castrol 0W-40
Page 1 of 5 1 2 5
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™