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VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils #4699714
03/19/18 12:01 PM
03/19/18 12:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 155
Olathe, KS
CARJ Offline OP
CARJ  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 155
Olathe, KS
Before getting married and buying my first German car, I had never heard of buying specific oil (other than weight) for a car. Can you all explain to me why a certain 5w-30 is approved and some aren't? This is a non turbo, inline 5 car, out of warranty. What is different about the oil? What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?


2004 Toyota 4Runner | 180k | Castrol GTX HM 5w-30, PH8A
2012 VW Passat | 85k | PPHM/Redline 5w-30, XG9911
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699723
03/19/18 12:18 PM
03/19/18 12:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 439
GA
drtyler Offline
drtyler  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 439
GA
Originally Posted By: CARJ
What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?


Increased wear and deposits.

VW 502 oils are readily available - Mobil 1 0W40 and Castrol Edge 0W40 or 5W40 are at Wal-Mart for good prices.

Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699724
03/19/18 12:19 PM
03/19/18 12:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,580
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
edyvw  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,580
Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: CARJ
Before getting married and buying my first German car, I had never heard of buying specific oil (other than weight) for a car. Can you all explain to me why a certain 5w-30 is approved and some aren't? This is a non turbo, inline 5 car, out of warranty. What is different about the oil? What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?

If you search on Google that you will get thousands of results.
In short: Euro specific oils have higher HTHS, stay in grade requirements, lower oxidation and NOACK. Generally they are more stringent and usually developed from better base oils.
IMO best Euro specific oil for Euro gassers that is readily available? Castrol 0W40 available in Wal mart.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 0W20 EP+ 2qt of M1 0W40 + FRAM Ultra).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699727
03/19/18 12:22 PM
03/19/18 12:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 155
Olathe, KS
CARJ Offline OP
CARJ  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 155
Olathe, KS
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?


2004 Toyota 4Runner | 180k | Castrol GTX HM 5w-30, PH8A
2012 VW Passat | 85k | PPHM/Redline 5w-30, XG9911
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699737
03/19/18 12:29 PM
03/19/18 12:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,580
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
edyvw  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,580
Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?

But research! Numerous topics on this. Literally thousands!
It is manufacturer requirement. EP is simply not stringent as let's say Mobil1 0W40. Manufacturer sets requirements based on their demands (which on Euro cars usually is connected to high strains and speeds). When VW develops engines it does not develop with Kansas in mind but with Auto Bahn in mind, and those are different requirements.
By the way, Toyota also recommends heavier oils for Europe, mostly ACEA A3/B3 B4 for gassers and ACEA C3 for diesels.

Last edited by edyvw; 03/19/18 12:30 PM.

15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 0W20 EP+ 2qt of M1 0W40 + FRAM Ultra).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699743
03/19/18 12:34 PM
03/19/18 12:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 439
GA
drtyler Offline
drtyler  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 439
GA
The 502 spec is built around ACEA A3 specs plus VW's own specs and wear tests, and requires the traits mentioned by edyvw above.

The M1 EP 5W30 doesn't meet all of those standards. It was not tested or approved by VW. If you want to run it in your car and tell us the results, go for it.

Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699747
03/19/18 12:38 PM
03/19/18 12:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 128
New Mexico
Saul Offline
Saul  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 128
New Mexico
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?


It seems like you want someone tell you using a non 502 oil is all fine and dandy. Why is this so important? It has already been said you can find the 502 stuff at walmart right next to the other stuff....

Also, Pennzoil 0w-40 euro is on clearance at walmart for $10 and is 502 approved...

Last edited by Saul; 03/19/18 12:39 PM.
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699748
03/19/18 12:40 PM
03/19/18 12:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 607
NE Ohio
knerml Offline
knerml  Offline
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 607
NE Ohio
I believe that VAG was experiencing engine sludge problems when they extended oil change intervals. Their response was:
1. VW 502 spec
2. Increased capacity oil filters, which also increase engine oil capacity


2015 Hyundai Elantra Sport 2.0 GDI Mobil 1 5W30 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T Castrol Edge 5W40 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699751
03/19/18 12:42 PM
03/19/18 12:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 155
Olathe, KS
CARJ Offline OP
CARJ  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 155
Olathe, KS
I'm just curious as to why some oils are okay and some aren't even if they are the same weight.


2004 Toyota 4Runner | 180k | Castrol GTX HM 5w-30, PH8A
2012 VW Passat | 85k | PPHM/Redline 5w-30, XG9911
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699771
03/19/18 01:11 PM
03/19/18 01:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 212
California
Bullwinkle007 Offline
Bullwinkle007  Offline
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 212
California
The us uses thin and light oils, Europe likes heavier weight oil, light weight oil is for fuel economy, ACEA spec is way better than API, read into it, way more demanding, also in Europe, to call an oil synthetic, it must be made with a PAO group IV, not group III, so to get euro spec synthetic, it must meet those mfg specs. Even Honda in Europe calls for acea a3/b4. Only use 0/20 for fuel economy or use 0/30, 5/40 or a 0/40

Last edited by Bullwinkle007; 03/19/18 01:11 PM.
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699825
03/19/18 02:05 PM
03/19/18 02:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,045
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,045
The Midwest
CAFE credits.

The automakers can sell CAFE credits and profit by them. Every 1/10 of 1 MPG counts. The profits are real.
The automakers must be careful by specifying and recommending the same oil viscosity used in testing.
They cant use a 0W20 during the test procedure and print in the owners manual this car requires 5W30.
VW historically didn't play the CAFE credit game in the USA like the others did.

BTW CARJ, I was a technician at a Honda dealer when your Civic HX came out. You have a rare keeper. They got great gas mileage with the 5 speed and
felt faster than the EX model despite having less HP. The rare CVT HX had a short transmission lifespan and most have long been in the junkyard.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Wanted: 2019 Ford Ranger
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: Bullwinkle007] #4699868
03/19/18 02:29 PM
03/19/18 02:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,991
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,991
Illinois
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
The us uses thin and light oils, Europe likes heavier weight oil, light weight oil is for fuel economy, ACEA spec is way better than API, read into it, way more demanding, also in Europe, to call an oil synthetic, it must be made with a PAO group IV, not group III, so to get euro spec synthetic, it must meet those mfg specs. Even Honda in Europe calls for acea a3/b4. Only use 0/20 for fuel economy or use 0/30, 5/40 or a 0/40


Please tell us what brand of oil is PAO? We will be waiting.


2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 61K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699880
03/19/18 02:40 PM
03/19/18 02:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,256
Lyndhurst NJ
Audios Offline
Audios  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,256
Lyndhurst NJ
I always assumed that it was for drain interval, and so specified a quality oil. Audi pretty much said "If you run an oil that is good enough to meet this spec, and you are on time with your intervals, you wont have issues for the lifetime of the car" So if youre running shorter intervals, or have some way of measuring how well the oil is holding up, then I wouldnt worry so much. One of my employees runs our cheaper Cam2 5/30 Semi syn in his 03 1.8t A4, and saw no issues with 5k intervals. I ran it in a friends 2006 BMW 325i and they recommended a 7500 interval with a recheck. He only went 6 or so, no issues what so ever. I have also seen Audis that push the interval with 502 oil and have had no serious issues. A customer of ours HAD an 07 A4 2.0t from new that saw about 45k a year. Everytime he came in hed be 1500-3k over the 10k interval, rarely adding oil. He made it to 290k before it overheated on his commute one day. So their spec isnt so bad for absolute bare minimum needed.


2002 VW Golf TDI-Mobil 1 5/40 TDT
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI Fuchs 5/40 GT Pro XTL
2005 BMW M3 BMW Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-Fuchs 5/40
1998 BMW M3/4/5 Fuchs 5/40
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699897
03/19/18 02:55 PM
03/19/18 02:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 202
South Wales, UK
Bailes1992 Offline
Bailes1992  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 202
South Wales, UK
VW 502/505 is a specifcation that builds on ACEA A3/B4.

Most oils that meet ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 meet VW 502/505. They're very easy oils to find.

As long as the engine oil you pick is of a similar viscosity and has a HTHS of 3.5 or more I doubt you would see any immediate issues, if any long term providing the OCI is reigned in a bit.

However, as I said above VW 502/505 oils are cheap and easy to find. So why bother with anything else?


'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90
Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ] #4699918
03/19/18 03:25 PM
03/19/18 03:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,586
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,586
Oregon
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?


M1 ESP has lower TBN (and lower additive levels) not suitable for U.S. gasoline engines.


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
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