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#4699714 - 03/19/18 01:01 PM VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils
CARJ Offline


Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 78
Loc: Olathe, KS
Before getting married and buying my first German car, I had never heard of buying specific oil (other than weight) for a car. Can you all explain to me why a certain 5w-30 is approved and some aren't? This is a non turbo, inline 5 car, out of warranty. What is different about the oil? What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?
_________________________
04 Toyota 4Runner | M1-209A & Mobil 1 0w-40
12 VW Passat | VW OF & 5w40 Castrol Professional
97 Honda Civic HX | Fram Ultra & Red Line 5w-30

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#4699723 - 03/19/18 01:18 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
drtyler Offline


Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 391
Loc: GA
Originally Posted By: CARJ
What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?


Increased wear and deposits.

VW 502 oils are readily available - Mobil 1 0W40 and Castrol Edge 0W40 or 5W40 are at Wal-Mart for good prices.

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#4699724 - 03/19/18 01:19 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 4848
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: CARJ
Before getting married and buying my first German car, I had never heard of buying specific oil (other than weight) for a car. Can you all explain to me why a certain 5w-30 is approved and some aren't? This is a non turbo, inline 5 car, out of warranty. What is different about the oil? What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?

If you search on Google that you will get thousands of results.
In short: Euro specific oils have higher HTHS, stay in grade requirements, lower oxidation and NOACK. Generally they are more stringent and usually developed from better base oils.
IMO best Euro specific oil for Euro gassers that is readily available? Castrol 0W40 available in Wal mart.
_________________________
13' BMW X5 35d (Mobil1 5W30 ESP+OEM filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+OEM filter)

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#4699727 - 03/19/18 01:22 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
CARJ Offline


Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 78
Loc: Olathe, KS
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?
_________________________
04 Toyota 4Runner | M1-209A & Mobil 1 0w-40
12 VW Passat | VW OF & 5w40 Castrol Professional
97 Honda Civic HX | Fram Ultra & Red Line 5w-30

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#4699737 - 03/19/18 01:29 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 4848
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?

But research! Numerous topics on this. Literally thousands!
It is manufacturer requirement. EP is simply not stringent as let's say Mobil1 0W40. Manufacturer sets requirements based on their demands (which on Euro cars usually is connected to high strains and speeds). When VW develops engines it does not develop with Kansas in mind but with Auto Bahn in mind, and those are different requirements.
By the way, Toyota also recommends heavier oils for Europe, mostly ACEA A3/B3 B4 for gassers and ACEA C3 for diesels.


Edited by edyvw (03/19/18 01:30 PM)
_________________________
13' BMW X5 35d (Mobil1 5W30 ESP+OEM filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+OEM filter)

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#4699743 - 03/19/18 01:34 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
drtyler Offline


Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 391
Loc: GA
The 502 spec is built around ACEA A3 specs plus VW's own specs and wear tests, and requires the traits mentioned by edyvw above.

The M1 EP 5W30 doesn't meet all of those standards. It was not tested or approved by VW. If you want to run it in your car and tell us the results, go for it.

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#4699747 - 03/19/18 01:38 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
Saul Offline


Registered: 02/18/15
Posts: 87
Loc: New Mexico
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?


It seems like you want someone tell you using a non 502 oil is all fine and dandy. Why is this so important? It has already been said you can find the 502 stuff at walmart right next to the other stuff....

Also, Pennzoil 0w-40 euro is on clearance at walmart for $10 and is 502 approved...


Edited by Saul (03/19/18 01:39 PM)

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#4699748 - 03/19/18 01:40 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
knerml Offline


Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 454
Loc: NE Ohio
I believe that VAG was experiencing engine sludge problems when they extended oil change intervals. Their response was:
1. VW 502 spec
2. Increased capacity oil filters, which also increase engine oil capacity
_________________________
2015 Hyundai Elantra Sport 2.0 GDI Mobil 1 5W20 & OEM (Mann W811/80) Filter
2011 Kia Sorento 2.4 Valvoline SynPower 5W20 & OEM (Mann W811/80) Filter

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#4699751 - 03/19/18 01:42 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
CARJ Offline


Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 78
Loc: Olathe, KS
I'm just curious as to why some oils are okay and some aren't even if they are the same weight.
_________________________
04 Toyota 4Runner | M1-209A & Mobil 1 0w-40
12 VW Passat | VW OF & 5w40 Castrol Professional
97 Honda Civic HX | Fram Ultra & Red Line 5w-30

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#4699771 - 03/19/18 02:11 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
Bullwinkle007 Offline


Registered: 02/12/18
Posts: 125
Loc: California
The us uses thin and light oils, Europe likes heavier weight oil, light weight oil is for fuel economy, ACEA spec is way better than API, read into it, way more demanding, also in Europe, to call an oil synthetic, it must be made with a PAO group IV, not group III, so to get euro spec synthetic, it must meet those mfg specs. Even Honda in Europe calls for acea a3/b4. Only use 0/20 for fuel economy or use 0/30, 5/40 or a 0/40


Edited by Bullwinkle007 (03/19/18 02:11 PM)

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#4699825 - 03/19/18 03:05 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
skyactiv Offline


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 4176
Loc: The Midwest
CAFE credits.

The automakers can sell CAFE credits and profit by them. Every 1/10 of 1 MPG counts. The profits are real.
The automakers must be careful by specifying and recommending the same oil viscosity used in testing.
They cant use a 0W20 during the test procedure and print in the owners manual this car requires 5W30.
VW historically didn't play the CAFE credit game in the USA like the others did.

BTW CARJ, I was a technician at a Honda dealer when your Civic HX came out. You have a rare keeper. They got great gas mileage with the 5 speed and
felt faster than the EX model despite having less HP. The rare CVT HX had a short transmission lifespan and most have long been in the junkyard.
_________________________
Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual

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#4699868 - 03/19/18 03:29 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: Bullwinkle007]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13528
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
The us uses thin and light oils, Europe likes heavier weight oil, light weight oil is for fuel economy, ACEA spec is way better than API, read into it, way more demanding, also in Europe, to call an oil synthetic, it must be made with a PAO group IV, not group III, so to get euro spec synthetic, it must meet those mfg specs. Even Honda in Europe calls for acea a3/b4. Only use 0/20 for fuel economy or use 0/30, 5/40 or a 0/40


Please tell us what brand of oil is PAO? We will be waiting.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 224,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 47K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#4699880 - 03/19/18 03:40 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
Audios Offline


Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 807
Loc: Lyndhurst NJ
I always assumed that it was for drain interval, and so specified a quality oil. Audi pretty much said "If you run an oil that is good enough to meet this spec, and you are on time with your intervals, you wont have issues for the lifetime of the car" So if youre running shorter intervals, or have some way of measuring how well the oil is holding up, then I wouldnt worry so much. One of my employees runs our cheaper Cam2 5/30 Semi syn in his 03 1.8t A4, and saw no issues with 5k intervals. I ran it in a friends 2006 BMW 325i and they recommended a 7500 interval with a recheck. He only went 6 or so, no issues what so ever. I have also seen Audis that push the interval with 502 oil and have had no serious issues. A customer of ours HAD an 07 A4 2.0t from new that saw about 45k a year. Everytime he came in hed be 1500-3k over the 10k interval, rarely adding oil. He made it to 290k before it overheated on his commute one day. So their spec isnt so bad for absolute bare minimum needed.
_________________________
2002 VW Golf TDI-Mobil 1 5/40 TDT
2005 BMW M3 BMW Twin Power 10/60
1997 John Deere Gator 4x2
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI Fuchs 5/40 GT Pro XTL

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#4699897 - 03/19/18 03:55 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
Bailes1992 Offline


Registered: 03/10/17
Posts: 119
Loc: South Wales, UK
VW 502/505 is a specifcation that builds on ACEA A3/B4.

Most oils that meet ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 meet VW 502/505. They're very easy oils to find.

As long as the engine oil you pick is of a similar viscosity and has a HTHS of 3.5 or more I doubt you would see any immediate issues, if any long term providing the OCI is reigned in a bit.

However, as I said above VW 502/505 oils are cheap and easy to find. So why bother with anything else?
_________________________
'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90

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#4699918 - 03/19/18 04:25 PM Re: VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils [Re: CARJ]
1JZ_E46 Offline


Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 921
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?


M1 ESP has lower TBN (and lower additive levels) not suitable for U.S. gasoline engines.
_________________________
2007 BMW X5 4.8i, 105K: Castrol EDGE 0W-40, Mann
2012 Mini Cooper, 45K: Castrol EDGE 0W-30, Mann

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