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+P & +P+ Ammo #4699283
03/19/18 02:03 AM
03/19/18 02:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
What is your opinions on this type of ammo? I do have some 9mm 124 gr. +P HST loaded in one magazine for a 5906 and an SD9. The other 2 magazines for each of these guns are loaded with HORNADY 135 gr. +P Critical Duty Flexlock and 124 gr. HYDRA-SHOK. Those are the only 9mm guns I have +P ammo in. I would only use +P ammo for personal defense, never target shooting.
All of my other guns are loaded with standard pressure ammo (9mm, .40 S&W, SIG .357, .357 Magnum).

Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4699312
03/19/18 04:04 AM
03/19/18 04:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,173
SE Ohio
MuzzleFlash40 Offline
MuzzleFlash40  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,173
SE Ohio
Others opinions may differ, but i'm not a fan of +P ammo unless you also train with it. My duty ammo is Hornady Critical Duty 135gr. They offer it both +p and non +p, but the shooting characteristics will not be the same. IT may not be the same as training with a .38 and shooting .357 mags, but the little bit of difference could mean a lot when it counts. Just my 2 cents.


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Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4699325
03/19/18 04:20 AM
03/19/18 04:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,126
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,126
The Midwest
The 5906 is a duty gun and I bet many police departments used Federal 115 grain +P+ ammo in it back in the 90's.
I prefer fast +P ammo because it expands more reliably than standard ammo. If I had to use my gun in self defense
because I was in imminent danger, I want a round that reliably expands and dumps the energy into the assailant
which +P and +P+ ammo helps to provide rather than the round not expanding, going through the assailant and potentially
harming an innocent bystander.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
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Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: MuzzleFlash40] #4699334
03/19/18 04:54 AM
03/19/18 04:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,270
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,270
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: MuzzleFlash40
Others opinions may differ, but i'm not a fan of +P ammo unless you also train with it. My duty ammo is Hornady Critical Duty 135gr. They offer it both +p and non +p, but the shooting characteristics will not be the same. It may not be the same as training with a .38 and shooting .357 mags, but the little bit of difference could mean a lot when it counts. Just my 2 cents.


It depends on the gun. If you're shooting +P or +P+ in a Glock 26, or something similar that's small and light, then perhaps yes. But if your carry gun is a full sized Stainless 9 MM, like a Smith & Wesson 5900 Series, or a full sized CZ-75 P-01, it's not going to matter. These all steel guns come in at over 40 ounces. Even more when loaded with a 15 round magazine. The added recoil of a +P+ round is barely noticeable over FMJ 115 Gr. practice rounds.

Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4699413
03/19/18 07:07 AM
03/19/18 07:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,208
Mahzurrah!
KCJeep Offline
KCJeep  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,208
Mahzurrah!
I have shot a lot of both and will continue to do so. It depends on caliber though. I carry nothing but +P+ in 9mm because I want all the shock I can get, and +P+ rounds have been proven as very effective in 9mm shootings. In 45 I don't bother with +P.

In compact guns the recoil difference is usually noticeable between target fare and carry loads, that is why we should practice with carry ammo once in a while.


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Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4699427
03/19/18 07:15 AM
03/19/18 07:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,224
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,224
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
What is your opinions on this type of ammo? I do have some 9mm 124 gr. +P HST loaded in one magazine for a 5906 and an SD9. The other 2 magazines for each of these guns are loaded with HORNADY 135 gr. +P Critical Duty Flexlock and 124 gr. HYDRA-SHOK. Those are the only 9mm guns I have +P ammo in. I would only use +P ammo for personal defense, never target shooting.
All of my other guns are loaded with standard pressure ammo (9mm, .40 S&W, SIG .357, .357 Magnum).


I can't figure out why you've got magazines loaded with ammo that you haven't actually shot, or why you've got them loaded with all different kinds of ammo.

If you haven't verified that a particular ammo works flawlessly in your gun, with every magazine, then you shouldn't depend on that ammo for self defense. It's a poor idea to presume that it'll work. I like the 5906. Reliable, strong, accurate. My first gun. Carried it as part of my flight gear during Desert Storm. But despite its reliability, and the fact that it's handled every ammo I've loaded it with, I would not bet my life on that gun until I verified that the ammo worked properly.

What you've got here, is a bunch of magazines loaded for the range. Have fun.

Once you verify that they work, then load your gun for defense.

Right now, you're just guessing...and the stakes might be your life.

Finally, how well you shoot matters more than tiny performance differences in ammo. Pick a good ammo, verify function, and be done. Watching you obsess over ammo is like listening to a debate on whether Exxon 92 is as good as Sunoco 93, or should you go with the Shell nitrogen enriched? In the same car, the differences are minor, and all the while, the driver is what really matters...


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Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: Astro14] #4699517
03/19/18 08:12 AM
03/19/18 08:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
What is your opinions on this type of ammo? I do have some 9mm 124 gr. +P HST loaded in one magazine for a 5906 and an SD9. The other 2 magazines for each of these guns are loaded with HORNADY 135 gr. +P Critical Duty Flexlock and 124 gr. HYDRA-SHOK. Those are the only 9mm guns I have +P ammo in. I would only use +P ammo for personal defense, never target shooting.
All of my other guns are loaded with standard pressure ammo (9mm, .40 S&W, SIG .357, .357 Magnum).


I can't figure out why you've got magazines loaded with ammo that you haven't actually shot, or why you've got them loaded with all different kinds of ammo.

If you haven't verified that a particular ammo works flawlessly in your gun, with every magazine, then you shouldn't depend on that ammo for self defense. It's a poor idea to presume that it'll work. I like the 5906. Reliable, strong, accurate. My first gun. Carried it as part of my flight gear during Desert Storm. But despite its reliability, and the fact that it's handled every ammo I've loaded it with, I would not bet my life on that gun until I verified that the ammo worked properly.

What you've got here, is a bunch of magazines loaded for the range. Have fun.

Once you verify that they work, then load your gun for defense.

Right now, you're just guessing...and the stakes might be your life.

Finally, how well you shoot matters more than tiny performance differences in ammo. Pick a good ammo, verify function, and be done. Watching you obsess over ammo is like listening to a debate on whether Exxon 92 is as good as Sunoco 93, or should you go with the Shell nitrogen enriched? In the same car, the differences are minor, and all the while, the driver is what really matters...

I didn't ask your advice on what I SHOULD CHOOSE for my personal defense! I asked your opinion on +P and +P+. What I have in my magazines is my conclusion after testing/shooting JHP ammo! THANK YOU!

Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4699676
03/19/18 11:07 AM
03/19/18 11:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,740
Rochester, NY
NateDN10 Offline
NateDN10  Offline
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,740
Rochester, NY
It depends on the caliber whether +P is an actual thing - I know for 9mm there's a standard for what +P actually means and therefore gun manufacturers can test against it. However +P+ isn't ever a real, industry standard, documented thing.

I'd have no issue using +P ammo for defensive purposes in my gun if it performed well and was reliable for me. However there are also plenty of standard pressure offerings that perform well.


2016 Mazda3 - 20,000 mi.
2011 Toyota Sienna - 100,000 mi.
Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4699787
03/19/18 01:33 PM
03/19/18 01:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,224
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,224
Port Orange, Florida
My opinion on +P+ ammo is it's a gimmick to sell suckers that want to pay a insane amount of money for a gimmick bullet. I agree with Astro14.
It's more important to hit what your shooting at and be used to the gun and ammo that feeds flawless then being the coolest kid on the block with Neato ammo.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4699792
03/19/18 01:36 PM
03/19/18 01:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,566
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,566
PNW
The only +P ammo I have is in 38 Special because I want something between regular 38 and 357 Magnum in my small revolvers.

Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4699924
03/19/18 03:32 PM
03/19/18 03:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,716
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline
Nyogtha  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,716
San Antonio, TX
I practice with .38 Super +P ammo, settled on this before .40 S&W came out and still don't have any strong motivation to switch. I've never purchased +P ammo of any other caliber, and I've never purchased any +P+ ammo of any caliber.


"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4699952
03/19/18 04:02 PM
03/19/18 04:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,224
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,224
Port Orange, Florida
I could see +P in a .38 Special because they are on the low side of power but I don't think you gain much in the 9 mm.
The Florida Highway Patrol uses the .45 GAP and the officer was chatting with told me it was pathetic. One of the instructors accidentally shot himself in the hand and they found the bullet on the ground. I kinda feel bad for them being sold on such a anemic round.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4700240
03/19/18 09:06 PM
03/19/18 09:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,208
Mahzurrah!
KCJeep Offline
KCJeep  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,208
Mahzurrah!
He said 38 Super not Special. I love the Super! What a fantastic round I wish it were more widely available. In 38 Super the +P is actually part of the cartridge name so you have to pay attention to ballistics to see what kind of loading you're getting. The Geco brand is a favorite and does about 1400 fps out of a full size 1911. Many other loads also marked +P will barely crack 1100.

The 38 Super is very similar to a .357 Sig in ballistics but it is a much better match for the 1911 for which is was designed.

My Underwood 9mm +P+ ammo does close to 1300, which is close to 38 Super, which is why I buy it. While there are no "magic" calibers, numerous studies have shown a high velocity 9mm/38 caliber to be the most effective in actual shootings. I figure it's not coincidence.


2018 VW Passat GT VR6 - 3k - Valvoline MST 5w40 - VW OEM filter
2012 KIA Sedona 95k - PP HM 10w30
2009 Ford Focus 133k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee, gone but not forgotten.
Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4700246
03/19/18 09:15 PM
03/19/18 09:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,716
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline
Nyogtha  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,716
San Antonio, TX
Poster before me said .38 Special, unsure who if anyone Panzerman's comments may have been addressed to.

I reckon my Remington ammo is good enough at 1215 FPS, 130 gr FMJ. I cleared out a gun shop clearancing it a number of years ago.

I shoot it in Astras, although not everyone agrees with this practice.

.380 for inside the house, .38 Super+P FMJ in the event a vehicle is involved is my philosophy. Don't want high risk of penetrations outside the walls of my home.

Last edited by Nyogtha; 03/19/18 09:35 PM.

"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: +P & +P+ Ammo [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4700291
03/19/18 10:15 PM
03/19/18 10:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,913
Northern Kentucky
901Memphis Offline
901Memphis  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,913
Northern Kentucky
Well +P+ is non standard, so you must really trust your ammo manufacture to be making stuff that won't blow up your gun, although if it's like the duty grade +P+ ammo it will be around 20-25% over pressure which most modern guns can tolerate.

In general when discussing the pressure it's meaningless without discussing the projectile being propelled. In the case of the HST, they perform perfectly at standard pressure and gain minimal velocity with the +P variety, so it's unnecessary, but some projectiles like the 124 Gold dot perform even better at higher velocities than standard pressure can offer.

All of the HST are great, you can't go wrong with any of the 5 flavors in 9mm.


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