Health Care Nightmare

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Question Bluestream, would you rather keep your health care plan you have now or trade it for what we have in the USA?
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Question Bluestream, would you rather keep your health care plan you have now or trade it for what we have in the USA?

I think at a certain income level, healthcare is probably better for an individual in the states, but what that number is I don't know.
I suspect there is for more slack in the US in terms of hospital beds available in most places because the US system is so profitable. Here our hospitals are run near full more often as it doesn't pay to have excess capacity.
 
Another question to you Canadians. Do people up there go broke and file bankruptcy because they cannot pay medical bills?
Here in the USA, even people with health insurance often go broke due to medical expenses.
 
Our (that is, Canada's) 'universal' health care is not as universal as the name would suggest; there are huge holes in it, some of which could bankrupt a family. For example, a friend receives a weekly transfusion to keep his lungs from being destroyed by an antibody. The medication is incredibly expensive ($1500/week?) and is covered by our province's medical system, but not by most other provinces.

Having said that, I received excellent care after breaking my leg skiing a few weeks ago. I know it's not free - I pay a lot in taxes, and about 1/3 of my taxes go to health care, but it was great to not be out of pocket for this injury.

Someone with money has the best of both worlds here - if they don't want to wait, they can pay their way as a private patient in the US.
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Another question to you Canadians. Do people up there go broke and file bankruptcy because they cannot pay medical bills?
Here in the USA, even people with health insurance often go broke due to medical expenses.

It's rarer as most medically necessary procedures are nearly free, but what can get people is that lots of drugs aren't covered by the province. Most people do have a drug plan as a benefit at work, but if you don't and didn't buy your own insurance, you could be paying lots of money for drugs to keep you out of the hospital. Once in the hospital everything is covered again for whatever treatment you need, but after you leave, you or your plan has to buy medications again.
I think our drugs are still cheaper than the US, but I was reading we have the highest drug costs of all public healthcare systems in the world because our provinces haven't been buying them directly and haven't negotiated good deals like the other public systems.
 
The hospital that I worked at up until a few years ago was running around 100-150 patients over capacity. The ER had around 45 rooms but the overflow would go into the halls and other available spaces. In some cases patients were treated in the waiting room. Surgery ran around the clock with scheduled operations well into the evening. It wasn’t a lack of space or people, it was a overwhelming demand for hospital services. As such, it was extremely difficult to provide excellent service but we did so with the help of automation and technology.

Healthcare is really in a state of chaos right now. The worst end of it for the customer is the billing process. In the case of my mother who passed away, we received bills 9 months after we had paid what was told to us the final amount. This was four months after she passed.

The billing system is broken and it’s ysually outsourced so accomplishing any sort of remediation takes months. In this day an age when Amazon can deliver pretty much anything overnight or in two days one has to wonder when this will get fixed.
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Another question to you Canadians. Do people up there go broke and file bankruptcy because they cannot pay medical bills?
Here in the USA, even people with health insurance often go broke due to medical expenses.


Generally, as already mentioned, no. Drug costs and costs for diabetics can be problematic, but there's no several hundred thousand dollar surgeries to destroy you financially like you guys have. Also, not having billing as part of our service means that there's less for the patient and their family to deal with. You don't have to worry about the financials.
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Another question to you Canadians. Do people up there go broke and file bankruptcy because they cannot pay medical bills?
Here in the USA, even people with health insurance often go broke due to medical expenses.


I have a chronic disorder that requires frequent examinations/procedures/etc and I've had services performed under the worst and the best types of insurance in the USA. (due to job changes)

I haven't yet met a facility that wasn't willing to either reduce the cost of services billed or to work out a payment plan. The hospital billing departments know that people don't just have $100K laying around, so I'm hesitant to believe the sob stories of people who let their lives be ruined because they couldn't make a simple call to the billing dept.

On top of that, it's rather foolish that people will get procedures done without first understanding the cost of what they'll pay. Usually the doctor gets his/her cut, the facility gets their cut, the labs get their cut, the anesthesiologist gets their cut, etc. 10 minutes on the phone will get you a 95% accurate picture of what said procedure will cost.

The real problem is that people don't have the mental fortitude to understand how the billing works (or how their insurance works). This is the real problem.
 
"nearly" free....

NOTHING IS "FREE".... Someone is PAYING. On the other end of this.... IS SOMEONE is getting PAID for their time and services provided... Supplies are PAID for...



Free free free free....

Lack of any deeper level critical thinking is clearly missing here.
 
Medical in the USA is horribly bloated and over priced, rife with bureaucracy and expertise varies wildly. During the avalanche of claims and insurance payments in aftermath of my serious motorcycle accident last year the in-patient physical rehab joint billed $1700 for "Prosthetics." I was there 8 days, and the only things I used were well worn wheelchairs, aluminum crutches, and the PT people would put a long strap around my mid section as a tether whilst I would do certain movements on the crutches. It was made of seat belt material or whatever. I told the employee health plan insurance this. They inquired. Rehab joint told them it "was for a collar." I was put in a c-collar from first day in the hospital and went into the rehab joint wearing it and even was given a spare from the hospital to shower in. It was a Miami-J type, which you can buy on the internet for less than $100. The rehab joint did *not* provide me any add'l collars nor did I use any "prothetics" while in there. To keep my left foot elevated when in bed they put three pillows under it, no special elevation techniques or anything. Shady $1700 charge quietly slipped onto health insurance bill that was two pages long. Employee health plan did not pay it but *would have* had I not pointed it out.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
"nearly" free....

NOTHING IS "FREE".... Someone is PAYING. On the other end of this.... IS SOMEONE is getting PAID for their time and services provided... Supplies are PAID for...



Free free free free....

Lack of any deeper level critical thinking is clearly missing here.




Agreed there is no free lunch, but when you eliminate insurance companies you can have a more efficient system. Also, everyone has to pay into it, and then the healthy subsidise the sick at the lowest cost. (if any health care can be considered low cost)

Check this out:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/canadians-may-pay-more-taxes-than-americans-but-theres-a-catch.html
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: bbhero
"nearly" free....

NOTHING IS "FREE".... Someone is PAYING. On the other end of this.... IS SOMEONE is getting PAID for their time and services provided... Supplies are PAID for...



Free free free free....

Lack of any deeper level critical thinking is clearly missing here.




Agreed there is no free lunch, but when you eliminate insurance companies you can have a more efficient system. Also, everyone has to pay into it, and then the healthy subsidise the sick at the lowest cost. (if any health care can be considered low cost)

Check this out:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/canadians-may-pay-more-taxes-than-americans-but-theres-a-catch.html


IMO I would trade the military industrial complex any day for good national health care + a little extra in taxes. Keep in mind the extra taxes are probably less than the insurance premiums anyways and everyone is covered.
 
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: bbhero
"nearly" free....

NOTHING IS "FREE".... Someone is PAYING. On the other end of this.... IS SOMEONE is getting PAID for their time and services provided... Supplies are PAID for...



Free free free free....

Lack of any deeper level critical thinking is clearly missing here.




Agreed there is no free lunch, but when you eliminate insurance companies you can have a more efficient system. Also, everyone has to pay into it, and then the healthy subsidise the sick at the lowest cost. (if any health care can be considered low cost)

Check this out:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/canadians-may-pay-more-taxes-than-americans-but-theres-a-catch.html


IMO I would trade the military industrial complex any day for good national health care + a little extra in taxes. Keep in mind the extra taxes are probably less than the insurance premiums anyways and everyone is covered.


There is no need to trade anything for universal healthcare. We already spend more than enough money to cover everyone. The size of the pie need not change, we just need to change the way we slice it.

But there are powerful forces working against any meaningful reform -- the current players do not want change. And they are the ones who spend a lot of money buying legislative influence. The patients are the weakest group. They lack any influence are the takers in this negotiating game.
 
Us healthcare is a joke, and some one is laughing on the way to bank. EVERYTHING is wrong with humanity, and picking on one thing here and there will not solve anything. It will just cause temporary bitcing. Then someone will dangle a political scandal here and there and whole the people look here, lobby there, close the door and go back home.
These threads will accomplish nothing, even if the "problem is "solved". At the end of the day money still rules you. Move along.
 
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: bbhero
"nearly" free....

NOTHING IS "FREE".... Someone is PAYING. On the other end of this.... IS SOMEONE is getting PAID for their time and services provided... Supplies are PAID for...



Free free free free....

Lack of any deeper level critical thinking is clearly missing here.




Agreed there is no free lunch, but when you eliminate insurance companies you can have a more efficient system. Also, everyone has to pay into it, and then the healthy subsidise the sick at the lowest cost. (if any health care can be considered low cost)

Check this out:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/canadians-may-pay-more-taxes-than-americans-but-theres-a-catch.html


IMO I would trade the military industrial complex any day for good national health care + a little extra in taxes. Keep in mind the extra taxes are probably less than the insurance premiums anyways and everyone is covered.



Wow, I’m sure a lot of thought went into that statement. Giving away freedom for health is not something I would care to live under.

Now back on topic, the insurance companies are a huge issue in healthcare costs. Ask your doctor next time how much they would charge you for your visit if you pay cash up front. Then compare to the insurance statement. As an example, in the recent past I paid $95 for a physical exam and that included the return visit to discuss the lab results. All told, the doctor visits and the labs were under $200 total. I have diabetes so there is some extra lab testing included.
 
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
There is no need to trade anything for universal healthcare. We already spend more than enough money to cover everyone. The size of the pie need not change, we just need to change the way we slice it.

But there are powerful forces working against any meaningful reform -- the current players do not want change. And they are the ones who spend a lot of money buying legislative influence. The patients are the weakest group. They lack any influence are the takers in this negotiating game.


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THANKYOU!!
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I would get a 'vacay', besides raising/invoking the RAGE of the majority on this biased site if I explained WHY.
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